EV general discussion

Mr Jack said:
There's no safety implications, at all, to updating the software for the radio whilst allowing the car to move. In fact, there's bigger safety implications in not properly separating the parts of the system that are doing safety critical stuff from stuff that isn't; it's opening the door to cyberattacks.
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You can do that already. The radio and map updates happen when driving.

These updates are for the cars powertrain systems. So obviously you can’t drive at the same time.
 
Mr Jack said:
There's no safety implications, at all, to updating the software for the radio whilst allowing the car to move. In fact, there's bigger safety implications in not properly separating the parts of the system that are doing safety critical stuff from stuff that isn't; it's opening the door to cyberattacks.
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Most cars have centralised domains. Do you think the latest Nvidia Thor chip is put in a car to control the stereo? Clearly you haven’t got a clue so let’s park it there.

PS. This has nothing to do with EV specifically. #coursecorrect
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
PS. This has nothing to do with EV specifically. #coursecorrect
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Indeed. You can do badly designed over-the-air updates for any car. EVs tend to get more updates on critical systems because they're more inherently flexible but that's the only link.
 
I doubt any car manufacturer is going to be stupid enough to let humans do human stuff whilst their systems are doing computer stuff.

"Yeah the car drove off the road and hit a lorry with its tailgate down, my husband currently has no head"

"Ok how did it happen?"

"The car was doing an update"

Yeah, no.
 
Mr Jack said:
Indeed. You can do badly designed over-the-air updates for any car. EVs tend to get more updates on critical systems because they're more inherently flexible but that's the only link.
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So what’s better flexibility or not needing to do updates ?
 
There are technical methods of background updating that will massively reduce any downtime, we've are on the that journey (started two years ago) for our Medical device systems..

However, it costs a bit, effectively we just doubled up storage memory and have the two partition concept, one live, one upgrade/backup.. you can update the upgrade/backup partition whilst the device is still running from the live partition, then an orchestrated reboot and all updated devices bootloaders switch partitions, so the down time is just any upgrade specific init, which generally is very small, even on our more complex nodes (x86 PCs running embedded windows)..

The bonus is we can then reprogram (in the background) the other partition and that is used as a backup, so if any integrity checks fail later on, we can always reboot to the other copy, minimising the chance of total system failure.

We previously enforced updates when not in use and some main updates could take 30-50 mins, now it's 47 seconds maximum, some updates are just embedded nodes which have <5 second downtime..

I'm starting to see this in commercial products now, my WH-1000XM6 use this method, you can update in the background whilst using the device fully, once the update finishes 'downloading', you reboot and instantly start using the headphones again..
 
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Makes sense. I had 1 update that meant I couldn’t drive in 3 years so doesn’t need two side by side systems for that small inconvenience
 
Haven't heard of any hacking of cars infotainment systems yet despite availability of chromium browsers which seems impressive (vs windows),
but, OTT car system update ( other than paid options & FSD) has it really benefitted the consumer or saved so much money for the mftr where cars are being inspected regularly anyway.
( forget were most of infamous ID3/meb infancy updates associated with inadequate 12V battery top-up, or ironically some related to OTT system failing )

e: hacks on public chargers are more lucrative - get a £10 device from the guy down the pub
 
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jpaul said:
but, OTT car system update ( other than paid options & FSD) has it really benefitted the consumer or saved so much money for the mftr where cars are being inspected regularly anyway.
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From my point of view, getting the map updates is pretty handy. I'm not sure I care about any of the rest. EVs don't need the amount of servicing that ICE cars do so there's less need to visit a dealer so, for example, the ID.3 doesn't have a service in the first two years but we've had a few updates in that time.
 
Mr Jack said:
You seem to be arguing with people in your head.
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Well I don’t even know what your point is which is what I was trying to understand. You seem to think cars don’t need updates. Then you said EVs are more flexible because they can be updated. And now you saying they don’t need to go to the dealer for servicing. The point of OTA updates is that they can be done without the car needing to go the the dealer

So are over the air updates losing you car better? Or never needing to do an update yourself and going into the dealer the preferred way of updates ?

Think you confused me seeking clarity with ‘arguing’ ? Can you see how it’s hard to follow what your stance is ?

Infact I forgot. My born (id3) had to go to a battery specialist dealer for the 3.5 update. It couldn’t be done OTA and neither could reading so they had to have it for a day in slough. That’s certainly not better than a OTA update
 
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jpaul said:
Haven't heard of any hacking of cars infotainment systems yet despite availability of chromium browsers which seems impressive (vs windows),
but, OTT car system update ( other than paid options & FSD) has it really benefitted the consumer or saved so much money for the mftr where cars are being inspected regularly anyway.
( forget were most of infamous ID3/meb infancy updates associated with inadequate 12V battery top-up, or ironically some related to OTT system failing )

e: hacks on public chargers are more lucrative - get a £10 device from the guy down the pub
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Why would you have heard of it, are you GCHQ or something?
 
The Poxhall approach to updates is far more sensible. You have an update that is required as part of a recall, that you know nothing about until you go to pick your car up after it has been serviced. Except they couldn't update it because "the internet went down" so you have to bring it back. But they need it for a whole day because it can take up to 4 hours to do "depending on the internet". It's not a problem though because it's only to do with the battery cooling, and who the hell needs to worry about that.

Oh, hang on a second....

...on second thoughts I'll take the 40 minute OTA update and the car can sort itself out parked on my drive :p
 
cuke2u said:
Not sure if other cars are the same but my i4 can configure any update to be installed at any certain time, the default being 01:00am.
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Same with our Volvo C40. The
Most recent update was set to run at 10pm and it worked perfectly while sat unused on the drive.
 
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