Is it time to ban LED Headlights

[lemonkettaz]

As someone who does many miles for work.

I'd start with, ensure your windscreen is crystal clean inside and out. Ensure your windscreen wipers are actually replaced regularly and not the same ones from factory built. Ensure people use their ventilation settings correctly and not let their car turn into a steam room.

Then look at the headlights, which are getting brighter and brighter for sure.

 

[[TW]Fox]

it about 7 button presses to get it on with my M5 4 years on and i still change the dash information whilst trying to turn on HBA.

It's a single button press on your M5, not 7.

The button is right next to the trip computer button though so yes it's very easy to accidentally cycle through that instead of switching it on

 

[Kenai]

I can't recall off the top of my head driving any vehicle with a separate HBA button or function - at least 90% of the vehicles HBA is integrated with the auto headlight position.

EDIT: From Googling it some of the Fords do have an option buried in the infotainment system to enable/disable HBA with auto lights, I don't think the others do - I know my Nissans for definite don't.

This is just a reflection of your potentially limited experience of a range of different manufacturer approaches though really, there are clearly plenty of cars out there where they are distinctly controlled systems, even if you haven't driven them yourself.

FWIW, all of the cars I regularly drive, HBA enabled or otherwise, will always instantly put the high beam on when pushing the stalk forward (though I can't say i've personally tried activating the high beams when there's a condition that would cause the auto system to turn them off though, so maybe there would be a delay if I was trying to do it when there were oncoming lights or something)

 

[lordrobs]

I never just fire and forget auto-dipping lights personally - the technology just isn't there, I always manually switch them to dipped if another car is coming on a dual-carriageway and manually move them back to main beams, I use the auto-dipping as a backup in case I forget or busy having to concentrate on something else, etc. which leads to another serious problem - most auto-dipping systems do not immediately put the main beams on when you move to the main beam position!!! absolutely moronic, some are near instant but a lot of cars especially mid 2010s there is a delay of 1-5 seconds, sometimes more, the system should always respect the user input and immediately switch high beams on when manually switched with a grace period of a few seconds for hysteresis before resuming auto-dipping.

EDIT: The other annoying thing is that on several vehicles, not sure how widespread it is in general, the auto-dipping is tied into the auto-lights and you can't have one without the other auto-lights is just way too useful to not be using.

Yeah the problem with that was I often found myself reacting to the fact that the auto system hadn't reacted just at the point that the lights automatically dipped so I ended up switching the main beams back on.

If there was a physical auto dipping button on the stalk I'd probably use them still in some circumstances but being a newer car that setting is of course via the vehicle settings on the touch screen with a tiny toggle switch to press then a confirmation pop up

 

[squerble]

IF we are gonna talk about banning lights because people dont use them properly... .can we ban rear fog lights as well? **

people using them willy nilly i find far more distracting than any headlight issues!

**not being entirely serious but they do wind me up!.

This is a wind up of mine too. I lament the poor road education we have the rear fog should be used only when no one is behind you (i.e., ******* turn it off when someone appears in the mirror).

 

[Nasher]

Yeah the problem with that was I often found myself reacting to the fact that the auto system hadn't reacted just at the point that the lights automatically dipped so I ended up switching the main beams back on.

If there was a physical auto dipping button on the stalk I'd probably use them still in some circumstances but being a newer car that setting is of course via the vehicle settings on the touch screen with a tiny toggle switch to press then a confirmation pop up

It's annoying, but it's not so bright you can't see anything else.

 

[Mobius 1]

Just bought a set of led bulbs for my car. Hopefully fitting them today. The halogens just don’t cut the mustard, they really are trash.

 

[Rroff]

This is just a reflection of your potentially limited experience of a range of different manufacturer approaches though really, there are clearly plenty of cars out there where they are distinctly controlled systems, even if you haven't driven them yourself.

FWIW, all of the cars I regularly drive, HBA enabled or otherwise, will always instantly put the high beam on when pushing the stalk forward (though I can't say i've personally tried activating the high beams when there's a condition that would cause the auto system to turn them off though, so maybe there would be a delay if I was trying to do it when there were oncoming lights or something)

Hence why I said "not sure how widespread it is in general" in my original post. All the cars I drive will instantly put the high beams on with HBA disabled, but that usually means having auto lights off as well which sucks. Most of them have some degree of delay, usually variable, with HBA on and while many are near instant it is still less than ideal compared to the instant of HBA off and the 2010s Nissans and some of the Chinese brands are pretty terrible with random delay anywhere from 1 to 5+ seconds depending on the circumstances.

 

[squerble]

Just bought a set of led bulbs for my car. Hopefully fitting them today. The halogens just don’t cut the mustard, they really are trash.

So just adding to the problem. Well played.

Modern LED "bulbs" (i.e., halogen replacements) are better these days, but they still won't disperse light in the same way the filament in a halogen does, and your car's headlights are designed for that filament output.

 

[Nasher]

Just bought a set of led bulbs for my car. Hopefully fitting them today. The halogens just don’t cut the mustard, they really are trash.

You'll blind everyone, then they will burn out because you can't keep them cool enough. Or you'll fail an MOT for the beam pattern. They might even make visibility worse vs good halogens.

Some halogens are still really good. It's down to how good the lamp design is really.

 

[Mobius 1]

huh. I didn’t know this. Thought this thread turned from ban them to yeah they’re now good. I probably should have read a few more pages.

Edit. The ones I have coming say 1:1 beam pattern ? I guess thats horse **** ?

 

[Kenai]

Most of them have some degree of delay, usually variable, with HBA on and while many are near instant it is still less than ideal compared to the instant of HBA off and the 2010s Nissans and some of the Chinese brands are pretty terrible with random delay anywhere from 1 to 5+ seconds depending on the circumstances.

Stop driving crap old Nissans and Chinese junk is the answer to that issue

 

[Kenai]

huh. I didn’t know this. Thought this thread turned from ban them to yeah they’re now good. I probably should have read a few more pages.

There's a big difference between purpose designed LED headlights with proper beam controls and slapping LED powered fake halogens (that are quite likely not road legal to fit) in a reflector lamp that's just going spew light all over the place

 

[jpaul]

people using them willy nilly i find far more distracting than any headlight issues!

I sometimes use them to signal annoyance to the guy behind who still has his main beams on 200m+ behind, rounding a corner,
bmw button was at hand, haven't yet got muscle memory on audis location.

 

[squerble]

huh. I didn’t know this. Thought this thread turned from ban them to yeah they’re now good. I probably should have read a few more pages.

Edit. The ones I have coming say 1:1 beam pattern ? I guess thats horse **** ?

Just marketing really. They'll probably be the type that have LED emitters top and bottom to try and emulate a filament, but it just doesn't match - a filament gives out light in a 360º fashion.

 

[Mobius 1]

Just marketing really. They'll probably be the type that have LED emitters top and bottom to try and emulate a filament, but it just doesn't match - a filament gives out light in a 360º fashion.

Okay just marketing gumpf. It says install the light so that the leds are at 3 and 9 o clock. I’ll try them out and if they’re blinding I’ll send them back. Or keep them for my main beems

 

[tom_e]

This is a wind up of mine too. I lament the poor road education we have the rear fog should be used only when no one is behind you (i.e., ******* turn it off when someone appears in the mirror).

Wut? Why are you putting a light on that no one will see

 

[squerble]

Wut? Why are you putting a light on that no one will see

Is that a serious question? You put the rear fog lamp on because it's purposely brighter, to pierce through fog and let people see the rear of your car from a further distance. As someone gets behind you in a normal fashion, you turn off the rear foglight because they'll be able to see your normal tail lamps now and the fog light is blinding close-up.

 

[Kenai]

Okay just marketing gumpf. It says install the light so that the leds are at 3 and 9 o clock. I’ll try them out and if they’re blinding I’ll send them back. Or keep them for my main beems

Be aware that technically they should (probably, not knowing exactly what your car is) fail an MOT just by being installed, should your MOT tester be able to see them.

Existing halogen headlamp units on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp for light source and lamp not compatible.

This does not refer to complete replacement headlamp units which may be constructed with HID or LED light sources.

If a complete headlamp unit has been replaced with a unit that was manufactured with HID or LED light sources, it must not be failed for ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’ but it must meet all other requirements detailed in section 4 of this manual specific to the type fitted at the time of test.

Given most types of headlight somewhat obscure the bulb these days, it probably won't be an issue but worth knowing.

 

[NickK]

So just adding to the problem. Well played.

Modern LED "bulbs" (i.e., halogen replacements) are better these days, but they still won't disperse light in the same way the filament in a halogen does, and your car's headlights are designed for that filament output.

That's true of bulbs being replaced by LEDs too.

Europe and the UK
Vehicle lighting regulations are governed by the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE).

• Lumen threshold: Under UNECE Regulation No. 48, an automatic headlight leveling device is required for any headlamp, including LEDs, with a light source exceeding 2,000 lumens. Below this threshold, manufacturers can install a manual leveling system, though many opt for automatic systems for safety and convenience.
• Recent changes: In March 2024, an amendment to UNECE Regulation 48 was adopted, which will introduce mandatory automatic leveling for dipped-beam headlamps in Europe starting in September 2027. This applies universally and is intended to further combat dazzling.
• MOT inspections (UK): During an MOT test, if an automatic leveling system is fitted, it must be functional. If a car is equipped with LED headlamps, the tester cannot fail it for not having an automatic leveler unless the luminous intensity is visibly over 2,000 lumens, or the system is fitted but is inoperative.

In the UK you may find that you'll need auto-levelling too, I suspect that the UK will continue to follow EU regulations otherwise all the UK cars won't be able to drive in the EU but the EU cars can drive in the UK... #brexitbenefit lol.