This Business and Moment...

Rroff said:
What I hate is you then see another company all hyping up this person coming onboard after their "transformative" work at the previous company (it was transformative alright but not in a good way) which is now on its knees trying to survive... and I just think "you poor sods". Funny they just seem to be able to get away with it.
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A lot of transformation leaders are [personally] successful because they know when to jump ship and how to sell their achievements whilst glossing over the failures. They don't have to live with the pain of BAU, a paper success with a bunch of teething problems is the feather in the cap needed to land them a gig elsewhere.

They also have a huge advantage of often getting both the money and the mandate to implement changes that were already known about / desired by the existing boots on the ground. Likely a fair chunk of the improvements could've been achieved anyway without their input if the support had been provided directly. Or it's like, millions get invested in a new system after years of underfunding of legacy systems. If half the money spent on implementing a new system had instead been channelled to the legacy system, it likely could've delivered many of the outcomes cheaper, faster and with less disruption. Not always the case and of course in some cases legacy systems genuinely need replacing, but I'm a bit jaded to the fanfare of shiny new stuff being delivered by outsiders.
 
Oh man isn't that the truth.

How many times have suggestions been ignored until the new hire says it, then it gets actioned. Likewise reinventing the wheel in a new system that's effectively is 90% the same as the old one.
Only they don't learn from the old one. They just repeat the same mistakes.
 
Delivery manager = I delivered it quickly, under budget and threw it over the fence before it imploded.. I don't feel bad for the sap it was forced on.

Product Manager (ie not delivery in disguise) = I sold the picture (and my soul) to the board, I build it making tradeoffs, I operated it and solving the problems those tradeoffs made as the board changes tact, I stand infront of the board with the next request for budget.. justifying my existence in demonstrating return and profitability..

I find a a product manager with 1y is still to prove themselves, 2-3 years shows improving benefits and strategic alignment.. after that I really hope they have good ROI story with market discussions alongside the ongoing features etc.. streamlining etc.

If they're VC and a start up.. then demonstrating they've got an ROI:cost of 5:1 minimum in that pipeline. Startups are really whatever is right and dealing with a CEO that does a 90degree sales bend in the mid of the meeting with a customer.
 
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Due to a mixture of demotions and side ways movements I'm now leading (or in some cases no longer under) people who previously I reported to or my boss reported to, it'll probably feel strange for awhile - I feel a bit guilty sometimes tapping them for knowledge especially where they are no longer being paid for the role that knowledge was part of.

Also frustrating that I had to threaten to quit to get things moving on certain things (really annoys me when things don't change until someone does something dramatic and/or burns bridges) - I'm just hoping things calm down in the new year and we have a proper reset. Stuff going on at the moment is creating an unpleasant atmosphere and getting in the way of me doing my job despite me not being involved in it - it would be completely valid for me to just stop putting in any effort and/or just sit back and watch it all burn but it isn't in my nature to do less than my best and ultimately I don't have to be here - but I get on well with my team and it is convenient for fitting around my life outside of work.
 
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OspreyO said:
Sounds like they've been moved from a role they were engaged with. To one they have no interest in, and the old role disposed of. Sounds like he's been deliberately managed out. Hardly a surprise then that he's unhappy and looking for the exit.

He's not seeing any value in staying, and you've not mentioned any value in retaining him.
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Well - we updated his job description, as requested - to reflects what he currently does. He is now disputing this, so can't really win!
 
Finally finished the Google Cybersecurity Professional Course today.. bit slow. Not that it means much for jobs, but it's been good to just keep the grey cells ticking over. I R now be a leet python hakz0r!
 
I find you lose a lot of cooperation and good will from such people. It sours them to the organization. You tend to get the legal minimum from them afterwards. Exceptions of course might be people happier taking a step back also.
 
OspreyO said:
That will fester...
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I agree. Drawn out tribunal fester.. they can leave and claim constructive dismissal if they're essentially doing two roles. To prevent this you really want a fixed and agreed plan with real concrete dates in it. Typically the employment clause is "do whatever is necessary todo your job" but the job spec's been redefined hence the risk.

I've see an organisation where this legacy 'culture' was common.. right up until the external company audit flagged it up as a risk where the accepted culture had people changing roles internally still with access to information and systems from the previous role (people have been in the company 40 years!), and wanting to continue that into their cloud migration (made me popular telling them it's not happening!)... I kid you not.
 
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We're making job cuts here. It's quite different to the UK - there are no redundancies as such, no consultation, no scoring matrix or reapplying for your own job.

You are simply asked into a meeting and told your services are no longer required and that is that. Notice period depends on the Collective Bargaining Agreement (basically a labour agreement that covers the general terms and conditions of your individual role regardless of the employer) so generally 1-3 months.

Three people gone from our department this week, more to come.
 
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OspreyO said:
I find you lose a lot of cooperation and good will from such people. It sours them to the organization. You tend to get the legal minimum from them afterwards. Exceptions of course might be people happier taking a step back also.
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I can't really go into it all here but it is a context where people have been happier to take a step back, I think hoping to see out the current storm and then work their way back up, but there is still some willingness to help out - I'm trying to keep a good balance to it but still feel guilty. (EDIT: As per bit below I shouldn't really have to be doing this - but I'm just trying to keep things steered in the right direction while a maelstrom goes on around me).

Goes both ways, which I don't think reflects well on the company. I spent 5 hours on Monday going through processes with a manger above me who has been dropped into sorting out issues which they lack the experience to deal with and it is ostensibly above my pay grade to be supporting them on it though I have the experience and ability - I'd be more bothered about that but as I've mentioned before I'm in a relatively unique position which gives me a fair amount of autonomy I'd otherwise not enjoy so I'm not rocking the boat - if it bothers me enough I'll just leave.
 
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Lopéz said:
We're making job cuts here. It's quite different to the UK - there are no redundancies as such, no consultation, no scoring matrix or reapplying for your own job.

You are simply asked into a meeting and told your services are no longer required and that is that. Notice period depends on the Collective Bargaining Agreement (basically a labour agreement that covers the general terms and conditions of your individual role regardless of the employer) so generally 1-3 months.

Three people gone from our department this week, more to come.
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Well, thats abit poop!
 
Successful on interview for a new role in the company, oddly kind of thought not getting it offered would take a decision away from me which in a way would have been nice as i'm not overly sure if i want to leave where i am. It'll be more money but i'll loose some of the flexible working i have now which has actually come in really useful. applied initially because it's been a challenging year but a change in management and the project team restructure over the last month has resolved the issues i had.
 
Rroff said:
I can't really go into it all here but it is a context where people have been happier to take a step back, I think hoping to see out the current storm and then work their way back up, but there is still some willingness to help out - I'm trying to keep a good balance to it but still feel guilty. (EDIT: As per bit below I shouldn't really have to be doing this - but I'm just trying to keep things steered in the right direction while a maelstrom goes on around me).

Goes both ways, which I don't think reflects well on the company. I spent 5 hours on Monday going through processes with a manger above me who has been dropped into sorting out issues which they lack the experience to deal with and it is ostensibly above my pay grade to be supporting them on it though I have the experience and ability - I'd be more bothered about that but as I've mentioned before I'm in a relatively unique position which gives me a fair amount of autonomy I'd otherwise not enjoy so I'm not rocking the boat - if it bothers me enough I'll just leave
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I might have supported someone promoted out of their depth when I was younger. However that's them using me as stepping stone. If they flounder however that flips.
 
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