Our EV is on order, no updates yet but I've just seen the Costco prices :O
Diesel has gone up 15p since I filled up
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EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Diesel has gone up 15p since I filled up
Soldato
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So just incase it helps anyone considering cars right now, I've been on the full BEV train now for coming close to a decade. In that time I've driven 8/9 different vehicles from a wide range of manufacturers and platforms so have begun to get a bit of a gut vibe on them.
My first two electric cars spoiled me I must admit.
I had a Hyundai Ioniq Gen 1, followed by the Gen 2. They were plasticy, and the Gen 2 didn't charge fantastically fast, with somewhat anaemic infotainment systems, but what they were was extremely reliable and efficient (and the sound system sounded decent if not amazing). The first gen would regularly do around 120-150miles, even with a piddly 28kwh battery. The second gen was better, with its 38kwh battery, and did 150-200miles on a single charge, all day long (the highest I ever saw was around 230 miles on a single charge!). Loved these cars.
Where they fell down was Hyundai customer service and the dealer chain, who would palm off issues and faults to you, but the cars themselves are great. These are efficiency kings if you find one with low mileage, I regularly saw high 4 miles per kwh out of them, and was well into the 5s and even 6s, especially in summer. God tier efficiency compared to most of the rest of the market. Much as I don't like Hyundai CS, I'd still consider another Hyundai/Kia, the cars themselves are very good, albeit pricing on them has risen sharply in the last decade.
Following this, I made the mistake of buying an MG4, as the Ioniq was being discontinued, and Hyundai didn't launch anything else in its class, and I'm not sure if they have even now.
This was frankly a disaster. I got one of the early, 1st generation UK in the 64kwh battery model, and it was wracked with issues in the infotainment and system control, plus it didn't feel as efficient as it should. I appreciate I was spoiled by the Ioniqs, but this was regularly in the 3-3.5miles per KwH zone, which wasn't TOO bad with the battery size, but was not where I expected a car of it's size to be. The deal breaker with MG was 2-3 things:
1) Dealer network is bad. Most of the dealers won't even help you with updates without a lot of pushing, which is even more important as they broke thier promise on OTA updates, once I found a decent dealer I stuck with them.
1a) The Dealer I bought mine from themselves dropped MG as a partner and went on to work with other brands. I didn't think they were great, but again if everything is rosey, surely they'd still be running MG?
2) On my car, the 'safety' features were anything but. It would regularly try to pull me off the road or into a curb, no matter what the garages did, and it went into garages at least 5-6 times before the finance company Santander ended up taking the vehicle back - to make it even more obvious, it actually scared the testers by trying to pull them into the curb with no warning on a clear open road after about 45 minutes of testing it. They told me they'd intended to bring it back, went to do a quick bit of extra testing before they did, and then that happened.
3) The infotainment system, especially early on, crashed, bugged and ALL SORTS. It was an A4 length fault list at one point. This wouldn't have been such a deal breaker, but added to point 2, it clearly felt like the car was unfinished, and potentially like multiple variants of equipment were used in different cars (even inside the MG4 production run), some combinations worked and some didn't, and based on the MG4 forums I was part of, it very much seemed to be a case of you got a good one, or you got a lemon.
I now own a BYD Seal (design spec); this has generally been fantastic. The car feels very solidly put together, efficiency is fine, 3.5-4.2 avg, which considering the size and weight, and power is fine. 0-62mph in 5.9 secs is MORE than fast/powerful enough for me, and the car generally feels well made and like a generally nice, premium car (that importantly still has physical, accessible controls for everything important). The garage I purchased from have also been very good and helpful overall, and didn't try to nickel and dime me every time I've been in. OTA updates have not been as frequent as the likes of Tesla, but it's had more than one update since I took ownership.
It unfortunately LOSES points in that I was crashed into at a red light (someone read the light on the other lane, and just accellerated into the back of me like an idiot), and unfortunately as the rear damage was not insubstantial, it needed a lot of parts; which, especially with the world situation right now, means I've had the car in the garage since end of last November/December awaiting parts. Some of this could be down to the garage themselves, and I'm 99% the world situation isn't helping; with the insurance company now taking a more active role in trying to find parts as of a couple of days ago, but it does highlight parts are not as easy to get as with brands that are more established in the UK and Europe. Just a reality, rather than a knock against the car itself though. The car is staggeringly good value compared to some of it's class competition, especially if you get a good deal from the dealer.
Over the years, I've also driven the following cars for varying lengths of time:
Tesla Model 3 - newer version, I HATE the lack of indicator stalk and the absolute lack of physical controls in many areas, I would have considered a M3 instead of the BYD, but moving indicator buttons to a non fixed location on the steering wheel was a big no-no for me. Nice car if you can get around that, and efficient for the battery size.
Vauxhall Mokka - drive is 'ok' but very inefficient, just felt outdated and outclassed, I was glad to be out of this.
Peugeot e-5008 - drive is also ok, but VERY inefficient, its a large car though and somewhat understandable. Still very hungry though, and I wouldn't buy something like this unless you NEED the size.
Peugeot e-3008 - I spent 3-4 months with this, its very inefficient, the software is buggy, and there are a ton of frustrating design quirks and faults.
Fundamentally, for me, the biggest things in an EV are efficiency, system stability, and predictable real-world behaviour and somewhat accurate range estimation. On this basis, I'd heartily recommend Hyundai's focused EV designs. By contrast I really wouldn't recommend the current Peugeot/Stellantis platform!
After driving multiple Stellantis EVs (e-3008, e-5008, Mokka), I’ve found the same issues across all of them — poor efficiency, buggy software, and inconsistent behaviour, and there really isn't much you can do about it. Even driving in Eco really doesn't make much of a dent, the e3008 was typically sitting around 2.8 miles per KwH at the end of a drive, even in eco mode and using adaptive cruise control to ensure optimal regulation. Even after OTAs/firmware updates, nothing materially improved, and given similar criticisms across the range (although this was the worse), it highlights the platform has flaws, from UX, functionality and just raw stability. The system even just randomly switched from English to French and stuck there until I manually toggled another language and back at one point. Just unstable and I would absolutely have felt AWFUL if I had bought this vehicle. By contrast, the Hyundai(s) and BYD all improved with updates, even the MG improved with updates, although early on that had a very low bar as it was debatably functional; but they never fixed the safety issues.
I'm being swapped into a Ford Capri later today, whilst I wait for my BYD to be repaired, hopefully that will be considerably better than the Peugeot e3008.
After nearly a decade fulltime in EVs though with well over 100K miles at this point (probably closer to 200k if I measured it), and with a wide variety of cars used for extended periods, the biggest takeaway for me is that core platforms matter MASSIVELY. Not in the sense of whether they're BEV or a converted design (although that also matters, but the Ioniq was a hybrid design and still clearly got a lot right), but whether appropriate consideration and care has gone into the design package, from hardware through software. This is just as important as price, as not all EVs are created equal, and some genuinely offer a lot for the money, and real savings over petrol/diesel if you charge at home, and others just do not.
TLDR, in my experience:
Edit:
One consistent win across EVERY EV I've tried has been the lack of steering wheel engine vibration. That might sound minor, but if you're driving 3-4 hours+ a day, it really does become fatiguing, and it was a revelation when that went away. I'm not talking driving feedback, but the constant vibration, which admittedly varies from car to car, that carries up the steering column in every single petrol or diesel motor I've ever driven. It’s one of those things you don’t notice until it’s gone, and then you realise how much effort you were subconsciously putting into filtering it out, and trying to just ignore it
That by itself was a GAME CHANGER and one more reason I'd never go back by choice; I mean, driving is still tiring, you're watching out constantly for people who seem to think road rules don't apply to them, but at least you're not having to fight the vehicle you're using anywhere near as much. Absolute game changer.
My first two electric cars spoiled me I must admit.
I had a Hyundai Ioniq Gen 1, followed by the Gen 2. They were plasticy, and the Gen 2 didn't charge fantastically fast, with somewhat anaemic infotainment systems, but what they were was extremely reliable and efficient (and the sound system sounded decent if not amazing). The first gen would regularly do around 120-150miles, even with a piddly 28kwh battery. The second gen was better, with its 38kwh battery, and did 150-200miles on a single charge, all day long (the highest I ever saw was around 230 miles on a single charge!). Loved these cars.
Where they fell down was Hyundai customer service and the dealer chain, who would palm off issues and faults to you, but the cars themselves are great. These are efficiency kings if you find one with low mileage, I regularly saw high 4 miles per kwh out of them, and was well into the 5s and even 6s, especially in summer. God tier efficiency compared to most of the rest of the market. Much as I don't like Hyundai CS, I'd still consider another Hyundai/Kia, the cars themselves are very good, albeit pricing on them has risen sharply in the last decade.
Following this, I made the mistake of buying an MG4, as the Ioniq was being discontinued, and Hyundai didn't launch anything else in its class, and I'm not sure if they have even now.
This was frankly a disaster. I got one of the early, 1st generation UK in the 64kwh battery model, and it was wracked with issues in the infotainment and system control, plus it didn't feel as efficient as it should. I appreciate I was spoiled by the Ioniqs, but this was regularly in the 3-3.5miles per KwH zone, which wasn't TOO bad with the battery size, but was not where I expected a car of it's size to be. The deal breaker with MG was 2-3 things:
1) Dealer network is bad. Most of the dealers won't even help you with updates without a lot of pushing, which is even more important as they broke thier promise on OTA updates, once I found a decent dealer I stuck with them.
1a) The Dealer I bought mine from themselves dropped MG as a partner and went on to work with other brands. I didn't think they were great, but again if everything is rosey, surely they'd still be running MG?
2) On my car, the 'safety' features were anything but. It would regularly try to pull me off the road or into a curb, no matter what the garages did, and it went into garages at least 5-6 times before the finance company Santander ended up taking the vehicle back - to make it even more obvious, it actually scared the testers by trying to pull them into the curb with no warning on a clear open road after about 45 minutes of testing it. They told me they'd intended to bring it back, went to do a quick bit of extra testing before they did, and then that happened.
3) The infotainment system, especially early on, crashed, bugged and ALL SORTS. It was an A4 length fault list at one point. This wouldn't have been such a deal breaker, but added to point 2, it clearly felt like the car was unfinished, and potentially like multiple variants of equipment were used in different cars (even inside the MG4 production run), some combinations worked and some didn't, and based on the MG4 forums I was part of, it very much seemed to be a case of you got a good one, or you got a lemon.
I now own a BYD Seal (design spec); this has generally been fantastic. The car feels very solidly put together, efficiency is fine, 3.5-4.2 avg, which considering the size and weight, and power is fine. 0-62mph in 5.9 secs is MORE than fast/powerful enough for me, and the car generally feels well made and like a generally nice, premium car (that importantly still has physical, accessible controls for everything important). The garage I purchased from have also been very good and helpful overall, and didn't try to nickel and dime me every time I've been in. OTA updates have not been as frequent as the likes of Tesla, but it's had more than one update since I took ownership.
It unfortunately LOSES points in that I was crashed into at a red light (someone read the light on the other lane, and just accellerated into the back of me like an idiot), and unfortunately as the rear damage was not insubstantial, it needed a lot of parts; which, especially with the world situation right now, means I've had the car in the garage since end of last November/December awaiting parts. Some of this could be down to the garage themselves, and I'm 99% the world situation isn't helping; with the insurance company now taking a more active role in trying to find parts as of a couple of days ago, but it does highlight parts are not as easy to get as with brands that are more established in the UK and Europe. Just a reality, rather than a knock against the car itself though. The car is staggeringly good value compared to some of it's class competition, especially if you get a good deal from the dealer.
Over the years, I've also driven the following cars for varying lengths of time:
Tesla Model 3 - newer version, I HATE the lack of indicator stalk and the absolute lack of physical controls in many areas, I would have considered a M3 instead of the BYD, but moving indicator buttons to a non fixed location on the steering wheel was a big no-no for me. Nice car if you can get around that, and efficient for the battery size.
Vauxhall Mokka - drive is 'ok' but very inefficient, just felt outdated and outclassed, I was glad to be out of this.
Peugeot e-5008 - drive is also ok, but VERY inefficient, its a large car though and somewhat understandable. Still very hungry though, and I wouldn't buy something like this unless you NEED the size.
Peugeot e-3008 - I spent 3-4 months with this, its very inefficient, the software is buggy, and there are a ton of frustrating design quirks and faults.
Fundamentally, for me, the biggest things in an EV are efficiency, system stability, and predictable real-world behaviour and somewhat accurate range estimation. On this basis, I'd heartily recommend Hyundai's focused EV designs. By contrast I really wouldn't recommend the current Peugeot/Stellantis platform!
After driving multiple Stellantis EVs (e-3008, e-5008, Mokka), I’ve found the same issues across all of them — poor efficiency, buggy software, and inconsistent behaviour, and there really isn't much you can do about it. Even driving in Eco really doesn't make much of a dent, the e3008 was typically sitting around 2.8 miles per KwH at the end of a drive, even in eco mode and using adaptive cruise control to ensure optimal regulation. Even after OTAs/firmware updates, nothing materially improved, and given similar criticisms across the range (although this was the worse), it highlights the platform has flaws, from UX, functionality and just raw stability. The system even just randomly switched from English to French and stuck there until I manually toggled another language and back at one point. Just unstable and I would absolutely have felt AWFUL if I had bought this vehicle. By contrast, the Hyundai(s) and BYD all improved with updates, even the MG improved with updates, although early on that had a very low bar as it was debatably functional; but they never fixed the safety issues.
I'm being swapped into a Ford Capri later today, whilst I wait for my BYD to be repaired, hopefully that will be considerably better than the Peugeot e3008.
After nearly a decade fulltime in EVs though with well over 100K miles at this point (probably closer to 200k if I measured it), and with a wide variety of cars used for extended periods, the biggest takeaway for me is that core platforms matter MASSIVELY. Not in the sense of whether they're BEV or a converted design (although that also matters, but the Ioniq was a hybrid design and still clearly got a lot right), but whether appropriate consideration and care has gone into the design package, from hardware through software. This is just as important as price, as not all EVs are created equal, and some genuinely offer a lot for the money, and real savings over petrol/diesel if you charge at home, and others just do not.
TLDR, in my experience:
- Hyundai/Kia - best for efficiency and consistency
- Tesla - very efficient but UX not for everyone, and they really have taken too much away from the user in terms of physical controls - and this is relevant as rumours have it insurance grades and safety ratings will begin to factor that in in coming years.
- BYD - great balance and value, not the most efficient, but generally well rounded, consistent and chonky battery with a solid UI at this point. The camera fitter thought it was Japanese because he didn't know the brand, and one of the tyre places I went to had people comparing it to a Merc, in a positive way, so the Chinese have come on a long way here.
- MG - avoid until software matures, they've got a lot of potential, but too many cut corners, and a real feeling of you roll a dice to see if you get a good/bad one (avoid for a few years after launch IMO). These guys fulfil the stereotype of a chinese car unfortunately, and feel early generation chinese EV in terms of stability and consistency; I hope they resolve it (even if it involves firing the management causing the corner cuts) as the POTENTIAL is there, but they're not there yet.
- Stellantis (Vauxhall/Peugeot etc) - currently the weakest overall, the platform is inefficient and riddled with design flaws. No wonder they're VERY cheap and hire car companies have loads of them; they use, abuse and get rid of them quickly, and don't have to care about long term customer satisfaction. I'd advocate buying almost anything else haha
Edit:
One consistent win across EVERY EV I've tried has been the lack of steering wheel engine vibration. That might sound minor, but if you're driving 3-4 hours+ a day, it really does become fatiguing, and it was a revelation when that went away. I'm not talking driving feedback, but the constant vibration, which admittedly varies from car to car, that carries up the steering column in every single petrol or diesel motor I've ever driven. It’s one of those things you don’t notice until it’s gone, and then you realise how much effort you were subconsciously putting into filtering it out, and trying to just ignore it
That by itself was a GAME CHANGER and one more reason I'd never go back by choice; I mean, driving is still tiring, you're watching out constantly for people who seem to think road rules don't apply to them, but at least you're not having to fight the vehicle you're using anywhere near as much. Absolute game changer.
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[ my €0.02 Your ownership experience seems to correlate with maturity of the manufacturers in the ev market place - VW and stellantis/europeans playing catchup from older lesser
efficient drivetrains & software, versus earlier to market and more advanced hyundai/kia/tesla/mg/byd; however new eu merc&bmw possibly leapfrogged them now.
Ownership of byd/chinese brands would rapidly be tarnished, as you say, if repairs are a problem (MrRockwells Id7 aside), insurance premiums maybe a tell.
]
efficient drivetrains & software, versus earlier to market and more advanced hyundai/kia/tesla/mg/byd; however new eu merc&bmw possibly leapfrogged them now.
Ownership of byd/chinese brands would rapidly be tarnished, as you say, if repairs are a problem (MrRockwells Id7 aside), insurance premiums maybe a tell.
]
Initially thought youy were talking about them selling ev's too, from discourse in fuel thread - hmmh they do https://www.costcoauto.co.uk/Default.aspx#hotDeals stellantis
You don't have any input with reading.
Soldato
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Fundamentally whilst MG (SAIC) and BYD are both Chinese cars, they are on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of quality.
MG seems to have fundamental quality control issues. When Santander's collection firm collected my MG however, they commented specifically they'd had a number of MG's back in recent memory, so I do not believe I am the only one who's had issues, and the general vibe on the specialist car forums indicated the same. Even Robert Llewelyn commented on the MG4s self driving issues, and WHICH put out a memo on it.
BYD however seem very, very solid, and I've seen positive user feedback, not just my own, on the Seal and Dolphin models, however the parts inventory in Europe seems to be poor (and that's something you wouldn't know if you've not experienced it, or not in the industry); the car has been in the (EV specialist) garage since end of November, and they're still waiting for at least a few parts; I appreciate the current Middle East situation is impacting transport and cargo right now, but this has been going on for a long time now before that became an issue, with repair inventory done on the car by beginning of December. (and trust me, I want the car back, I really like it)
From everything I've heard, Merc and BMW have made big strides in thier newer EVs, and I applaud them for doing so; but they carry a substantial premium over many other brands so that is also worth factoring. They SHOULD be good, they're not cheap
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I had to get my Smart #5 repaired, and it was a very smooth and quick process. The parts actually came from Germany. I was worried it would all be back order from China. So that certainly isn't a worry for me moving forwards.
Caporegime
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I'd much rather hear from a real EV fan like jpaul than you with you "decade of experience"
/S
Soldato
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Seems decent for the price, although the RRP on them seems to be very high considering the range!
Soldato
- Joined
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Honestly, I do love my BEVs, I won't go back without a fight!
That first Ioniq literally paid half the finance on fuel savings over the diesel I had before it, not even joking. I appreciate electric was noticeably cheaper back then, generally, but you also didn't get EV tariffs back then etc either, and petrol/diesel has only gone one way really (UP).
Was also useful being able to charge/fuel up at home during the COVID restrictions, yes, it's not fast, but the electric grid is rarely disconnected, and unlike petrol stations, doesn't close due to empty tanks.
One thing I just added to my post which I'd neglected to even mention, and which a new buyer might not even think about coming from a traditional vehicle, is the lack of steering column engine vibration. Might not seem like a big thing but when you're regularly driving hours a day, that becomes really fatiguing, and it was a massive revelation getting rid of it. You become so used to it, but once it's gone, you feel so much better after a drive, assuming you're not cramped etc.
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This deal seems to be on the Renault Alpine A290 website as well https://www.alpine-cars.co.uk/elect...paignid=20087765504&utm_source_platform=SA360
My wife’s lease C40 went back today. It was a great car and we never had one single issue in 3 years. Incredibly well built and great customer service.
I did a check on the battery state of health and it was still at 96% after 28000 miles. Out of 4 different EVs only 1 ended up at lower than 95% after 2 - 3 years and that was my first (E-Tron 50) because I charged to 100% almost every charge due to range anxiety.
I did a check on the battery state of health and it was still at 96% after 28000 miles. Out of 4 different EVs only 1 ended up at lower than 95% after 2 - 3 years and that was my first (E-Tron 50) because I charged to 100% almost every charge due to range anxiety.
I was watching video of a nearly 300k mile Kia eNIRO with 87% SOH - tells you how wrong people were about BEV's and their lifespan.
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I'll be the first to raise my hand and admit that I was extremely sceptical about this exact issue. So much so that in 2018 I even started a thread about it.
Seeing how well the tech has developed, and how well this exact issue has been handled or, rather engineered out to the point of rivalling the engine wear on ICE vehicles is very cool and genuinely impressive.
Car in question that I was looking at was 6 years old I think, and the vehicle model and battery spec was ~2018 so it's not even that new vs more modern pack design Video is here - be warned this is not cinematography and just some bloke and his wife taking nonsense most of the time.
It all varies and I have seen ID.4s and Ioniq 5s with SoH in the high 80s% after only 3 - 4 years and about 50,000 miles. Most ID3 with the smaller battery I saw are about 90% or lower after 3 - 4 years.
But as outlined above, that is still far better than all the FUD about batteries just dying after 2-3 years.
I do understand some people worrying about buying used EVs without due diligence but some of the FUD I still hear is bewildering. A friend is looking for a used car with a £11k - £12k budget. I suggested EV as an option and got the usual worries.
Poor range: You can get one with 250ish summer and 200ish winter in your budget.
Too expensive: The ones in your budget are better cars than the 2021 Kona mild Hybrid, or the 2022 Captur you are looking at.
What if the entire battery dies: the ones I am showing you will have 3 or 4 years and or up to 70,000 miles of battery warranty left. They will also have a state of health from around 90%. Meaning still decent range of about 180 winter and 240 summer.
I recommended a few EVs, a 2021 ID.3 58kWh with 40,000 miles. A 2022 MG4 SE 64kWh with 30,000 miles. I explained how they should not look at anything below 58 - 64kWh for their driving profile and also only CCS. They do about 160 mile round trip to see their partner about twice a month.
I suspect used EV prices will start going up soon given the current oil crisis.
But as outlined above, that is still far better than all the FUD about batteries just dying after 2-3 years.
I do understand some people worrying about buying used EVs without due diligence but some of the FUD I still hear is bewildering. A friend is looking for a used car with a £11k - £12k budget. I suggested EV as an option and got the usual worries.
Poor range: You can get one with 250ish summer and 200ish winter in your budget.
Too expensive: The ones in your budget are better cars than the 2021 Kona mild Hybrid, or the 2022 Captur you are looking at.
What if the entire battery dies: the ones I am showing you will have 3 or 4 years and or up to 70,000 miles of battery warranty left. They will also have a state of health from around 90%. Meaning still decent range of about 180 winter and 240 summer.
I recommended a few EVs, a 2021 ID.3 58kWh with 40,000 miles. A 2022 MG4 SE 64kWh with 30,000 miles. I explained how they should not look at anything below 58 - 64kWh for their driving profile and also only CCS. They do about 160 mile round trip to see their partner about twice a month.
I suspect used EV prices will start going up soon given the current oil crisis.
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Soldato
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My ID7 is an interesting experiment for me, it’s a company car and due to the miles I do (and a bit of range anxiety) it’s always been charged to 100% at home. I never want to put any more than 40kwh (all about the off peak charging 
) in so I never really let it drop lower than 45%
I’ve still got 18 months with it, so the SOH will be a good one to look at in oct 2027 . It will likely have 80k miles on it at that point. For DC charging I do that 3 or 4 times a month, but only to 80%
) in so I never really let it drop lower than 45% I’ve still got 18 months with it, so the SOH will be a good one to look at in oct 2027 . It will likely have 80k miles on it at that point. For DC charging I do that 3 or 4 times a month, but only to 80%
Yeah, but £5k deposit needed there and doesn’t include tyres, insurance & servicing (not that it would need much).
Feel to me like they might be trying to create a bigger 2nd hand market in a couple of years time.
Unfortunately though your original post had zero details and no link and all you put was a monthly figure which is comparable...