M3 feasibility

jamoor said:
I have been given the opportunity to purchase a mint 2003 M3, it has had one owner from new (very wealthy one at that) pretty much all options ticked (TV, heated seats,better sound system etc) the owner is one of my friends dads. mileage is 30 odd k.

Literally no expense spared on it.

The thing that put me off slightly however is,
it has been used on track days 4-5 times a year, the only other thing it's done is drive 45mins a couple of times each week to his work.

Should this pose any problems?

Also what are the realistic running costs of one of these, how much are services at dealers?
Luckily it's a manual gearbox.

Thanks!

Hi there

Now is a good time to buy an M3, as good low mileage examples are holding values well and its only high mileage examples on older plates that generally go cheap, but those can be good buys. Even though a new M3 is out, demand for the older E46 is strong and good examples still fetch good money. There are a lot of M3's for sale but many are high mileage and maybe some not such great examples, so the good ones are holding value.

With an M3 the most critical first step is that the 1200 mile service was done on time, so it needs to have been done in the 1100-1250 mile range, if it was done any later or missed then just walk away unless the car is mega cheap and beaware such cars are very hard to sell.

These cars must have full service history by an approved BMW dealer or a specialist such as Thorney Motorsport. Again if not then walk away. A car thats seen a lot of track action would no doubt have being serviced every 5000-8000 miles or one would expect so. Most driven on the road will go between 8000-12000 miles so if you check the service book you can get an idea of how the car was driven not that it really matters though if the guy has looked after it as you say.

Running cost, well they drink petrol, in fact I am shocked at how much petrol these things drink. I am average 18MPG in the CSL, so I'd expect a normal M3 to return 16-17MPG because of its extra weight its luggin about. I find this shocking because my heavier Mustang with far far more power and torque returned 16MPG. On a run sticking to 70mph the CSL returns 26-28mpg, so expect similar from an M3, the Mustang however could return 30mpg in similar circumstances, needless to say BMW need to improve economy when a far cheaper to produce Ford Engine can return better MPG with over 500 horses, though I believe superchargers do help make things more efficient.

Insurance, it was more than the Mustang for me but nothing shocking at £700 for the CSL, but a tracker was required, not sure on an M3. Now am M3 might be more or less, but whatever way you look at for a 20yr old its gonna cost you a fortune.

Reliability and other running cost well how longs a piece of string. You might get one that never misses a beat and all you will have to pay for is the regular servicing which is not cheap anyway. Expect £160-£210 for a regular oil service, with Inspection 1 around £600 and Inspection 2 around £800. It goes Oil service, Insp1, Oil, Insp2, Oil, Insp1 etc. so very expensive, in fact Porsche is cheaper to service. Alternatively a whole host of things might go wrong and if you don't have warranty on the car then your gonna need deep pockets.

With a car thats seen a lot of track action you should mainly be getting the DIFF inspected I believe, but apart from that all should be fine. The car should also be splattered in stone chips on the front bumper, if its not ask because its either being re-painted at the owners request or maybe there was a front-end accident.

Due to its track time, get the bushes checked as they are not upto the task of regular track use and can become a little soft and need replacing.

Check for any knocking noises on a test drive, especially when going over bumps as that means certain suspension parts need replacing.

If you get the VIN/Chassis number, ring BMW and they can check that all recalls have been done to the car for you as well, these are very important, especially ones such as the bearing recall etc.

M3's when cold sound crap, the exhaust is very raspy and can even sound rattly, but its completely normal. Also when cold the engine is a bit poor as in kangarooy, but again normal, soon goes.

Things such as clunks from the differential when changing gear is normal as is a rattle when turning the car off. The engines also generally tend to sound a little tappety at idle, again normal.

Think thats about it. :)
 
I wish £200 per month was all I lost on my M3's is all I can say. That sort of depreciation is NOTHING on a car like this. I would also suggest that it is wishfull thinking that M3 prices will "fall faster than ever" as I would suggest the reverse is true when a new model finally hits the streets, rather than the 2 years when everyone is building up to it. If anything the M3 will depreciate less over the next 6 months than it has in the last 18.
 
housemaster said:
I wish £200 per month was all I lost on my M3's is all I can say. That sort of depreciation is NOTHING on a car like this. I would also suggest that it is wishfull thinking that M3 prices will "fall faster than ever" as I would suggest the reverse is true when a new model finally hits the streets, rather than the 2 years when everyone is building up to it. If anything the M3 will depreciate less over the next 6 months than it has in the last 18.

Hi m8

Exactly my thoughts too, hence why I said in my post now is the best time to try and buy a good example M3 with low mileage, because you risk very little to no depreciation if you get yourself a good buy on a decent low mileage car and the OP seems to have a good opportunity to do so. :)
 
I got 24.3 out of my M3's over roughly 100,000 miles, but then I tend not to drive around town or do many short journies.


and I must obviously have been driving like a gayer :D
 
housemaster said:
I got 24.3 out of my M3's over roughly 100,000 miles, but then I tend not to drive around town or do many short journies.


and I must obviously have been driving like a gayer :D

HI there

Well I am a nutter. :D

The CSL is returning 18-19MPG with my style driving, wheras the Mustang returned 15-16MPG. :)
 
Gibbo said:
Hi m8

Exactly my thoughts too, hence why I said in my post now is the best time to try and buy a good example M3 with low mileage, because you risk very little to no depreciation if you get yourself a good buy on a decent low mileage car and the OP seems to have a good opportunity to do so. :)

Well Gibbo, you've certainly achieved that mate! ;) :cool:
 
housemaster said:
It may be a £20K to buy, its always going to be a £45K sports saloon to run.
That's spot on, and I think it's a trap a lot of people fall into.

It's always best to remember that this car would've been £45k+ when it came out, so running costs (servicing, parts, general running costs) are commensurate with that. Just like if you bought a "cheap" Ferrari, buying it is only really about 50% of the equation.
 
Gibbo said:
Hi there

Now is a good time to buy an M3, as good low mileage examples are holding values well and its only high mileage examples on older plates that generally go cheap, but those can be good buys. Even though a new M3 is out, demand for the older E46 is strong and good examples still fetch good money. There are a lot of M3's for sale but many are high mileage and maybe some not such great examples, so the good ones are holding value.

With an M3 the most critical first step is that the 1200 mile service was done on time, so it needs to have been done in the 1100-1250 mile range, if it was done any later or missed then just walk away unless the car is mega cheap and beaware such cars are very hard to sell.

These cars must have full service history by an approved BMW dealer or a specialist such as Thorney Motorsport. Again if not then walk away. A car thats seen a lot of track action would no doubt have being serviced every 5000-8000 miles or one would expect so. Most driven on the road will go between 8000-12000 miles so if you check the service book you can get an idea of how the car was driven not that it really matters though if the guy has looked after it as you say.

Running cost, well they drink petrol, in fact I am shocked at how much petrol these things drink. I am average 18MPG in the CSL, so I'd expect a normal M3 to return 16-17MPG because of its extra weight its luggin about. I find this shocking because my heavier Mustang with far far more power and torque returned 16MPG. On a run sticking to 70mph the CSL returns 26-28mpg, so expect similar from an M3, the Mustang however could return 30mpg in similar circumstances, needless to say BMW need to improve economy when a far cheaper to produce Ford Engine can return better MPG with over 500 horses, though I believe superchargers do help make things more efficient.

Insurance, it was more than the Mustang for me but nothing shocking at £700 for the CSL, but a tracker was required, not sure on an M3. Now am M3 might be more or less, but whatever way you look at for a 20yr old its gonna cost you a fortune.

Reliability and other running cost well how longs a piece of string. You might get one that never misses a beat and all you will have to pay for is the regular servicing which is not cheap anyway. Expect £160-£210 for a regular oil service, with Inspection 1 around £600 and Inspection 2 around £800. It goes Oil service, Insp1, Oil, Insp2, Oil, Insp1 etc. so very expensive, in fact Porsche is cheaper to service. Alternatively a whole host of things might go wrong and if you don't have warranty on the car then your gonna need deep pockets.

With a car thats seen a lot of track action you should mainly be getting the DIFF inspected I believe, but apart from that all should be fine. The car should also be splattered in stone chips on the front bumper, if its not ask because its either being re-painted at the owners request or maybe there was a front-end accident.

Due to its track time, get the bushes checked as they are not upto the task of regular track use and can become a little soft and need replacing.

Check for any knocking noises on a test drive, especially when going over bumps as that means certain suspension parts need replacing.

If you get the VIN/Chassis number, ring BMW and they can check that all recalls have been done to the car for you as well, these are very important, especially ones such as the bearing recall etc.

M3's when cold sound crap, the exhaust is very raspy and can even sound rattly, but its completely normal. Also when cold the engine is a bit poor as in kangarooy, but again normal, soon goes.

Things such as clunks from the differential when changing gear is normal as is a rattle when turning the car off. The engines also generally tend to sound a little tappety at idle, again normal.

Think thats about it. :)
Very informative, thanks, I guess I can find out about the recalls, I guess that is really the only thing I will need to check, tbh I don't really need to look really deep into the car, as I can trust every single thing the seller says.

MPG doesen't seemtotally awful as long as your foot isn't flat to the floor like mine is much of the time.

I am not too bothered about OMG!1 RWD as long as you drive carefully you have nothing to fear. Service history should be bang upto date on this car.

The only fear I have is something major going wrong, as I will truely have to have deep pockets. I read a lot of stories about these cars costing serious money to reapair, and you will need to find someone who can repair it in the first place, I don't actually know any non BMW garage where I will feel comfortable taking the car to.
Servicing seems kinda ok here
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M3-M5-M-Power...ryZ10374QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think his new one is due in NOV, so I will be looking to get it around that time.

Track use isn't too regular - 4-5 times a year isn't exactly every weekend.
 
Jamoor,

I would urge you not to put trust over validation of the facts to ensure nothing is missed. Best intentions I am sure, and honesty too, but things still get missed and it is worth validating things before you buy a car of this nature as to assume its fine because the person is 100% honest, which I am sure he is, is to open yourself up to a whole can of worms if his honesty was based on bad information, simply passed down to you in good faith.

Validating something is not to cast an assertion on his honesty.. ;)
 
jamoor said:
Very informative, thanks, I guess I can find out about the recalls, I guess that is really the only thing I will need to check, tbh I don't really need to look really deep into the car, as I can trust every single thing the seller says.

MPG doesen't seemtotally awful as long as your foot isn't flat to the floor like mine is much of the time.

I am not too bothered about OMG!1 RWD as long as you drive carefully you have nothing to fear. Service history should be bang upto date on this car.

The only fear I have is something major going wrong, as I will truely have to have deep pockets. I read a lot of stories about these cars costing serious money to reapair, and you will need to find someone who can repair it in the first place, I don't actually know any non BMW garage where I will feel comfortable taking the car to.
Servicing seems kinda ok here
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M3-M5-M-Power...ryZ10374QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think his new one is due in NOV, so I will be looking to get it around that time.

Track use isn't too regular - 4-5 times a year isn't exactly every weekend.


Hi there

First of all never trust no one. :)

MPG is not bad, but coming from a 4.6l V8, with supercharger pushing out over 500 horses and 500 torques that returned 15-16mpg I was expecting a lot more from the BMW's puny in comparison 3.2l straight 6, still I aint bothered. :D

The M3 is a friendly RWD car, it benefits from 50/50 weight distribution and is very well balanced, when it slides its controllable unless your sliding on oil/diesel then like any car you might not recover it, but in normal condition wet or dry the chassis is great and friendly. If you have DSC on then it really tames the car as it kicks in all too easily. DSC annoyed me from day one becuase on the SMG box it even kicks in during straight line acceleration as it tries to prevent the wheels from chirping on gear changes, so it kills acceleration. Then if your coming of a roundabout or corner you may feel the need to get the power down or a little more yet the DSC may think otherwise. A perfect example is pulling out of a junction with poor surface but giving a bit of gas, the DSC will just kill all power, wheras with it off you might get a bit of spin but you will be away and grinning.

Only take the car to BMW garage or approved ones, using a backstreet non-authorised garage on such a car is a very bad idea. If you fear you can't afford the bills then simply don't buy the car, sorry if thats not want you want to hear but these cars are special and need specialist attention from professionals such as BMW or specialist approved garages. As already mentioned get a warranty for the car and then let BMW carry out any work under warranty.
 
housemaster said:
Jamoor,

I would urge you not to put trust over validation of the facts to ensure nothing is missed. Best intentions I am sure, and honesty too, but things still get missed and it is worth validating things before you buy a car of this nature as to assume its fine because the person is 100% honest, which I am sure he is, is to open yourself up to a whole can of worms if his honesty was based on bad information, simply passed down to you in good faith.

Validating something is not to cast an assertion on his honesty.. ;)
Yeah, you have a point, although tbh if he wanted to lie to me, he wouldn't have told me that he has tracked the car 5 times a year.

But I will of course check the car over like I usually do. He has owned the car since day 1, so he knows everything about the car :D
 
I owned both of mine from new, and I knew everything about the history of the car, not everything about the car. A subtle difference..
 
housemaster said:
I owned both of mine from new, and I knew everything about the history of the car, not everything about the car. A subtle difference..
I agree.

You make a fair point. I guess I will do the usual stuff.

Out of interest how many miles and how long did u have each car?
Also why did you have 2?
 
jamoor said:
I agree.

You make a fair point. I guess I will do the usual stuff.

Out of interest how many miles and how long did u have each car?
Also why did you have 2?

Hi there

The guy I purchased my CSL from had owned two CSL's previously, this was his 3rd. Quite strange but his reasoning was acceptable.

His first CSL had no aircon and it was as such he did not like, so he got his second one with aircon. This was then replaced by an M3 Cab, as it turns out he really missed the CSL so he got another. I now own this car, he now has a new M3 to be delivered in September.

So that will be 5 M3's he has owned in total, pretty crazy but guess they must be good cars. I certainly love the CSL to bits. :)
 
jamoor said:
Out of interest how many miles and how long did u have each car? Also why did you have 2?
This was my first one
DSCN0018_800.jpg


This was my second one
DSCN0089_800.jpg


I did about 56,000 miles in the black one in just over 22 months. On the basis that this was too many, but the cars were still in demand, I decided to bail out of that one and get the silver one, which I think I covered 40,000 miles in. I had both of them from new and bar a Vanos failiure on the black one at 42,000 just after a Service 2 and fixed under warranty, and a suspension spring on the silver one again fixed at no cost to me, they were faultless. The black one is currently around 120K to 130K miles I think.

And before all you conspiracy detectives get on my case, I moved house in between! :p
 
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