Soldato
I always find it amusing how everyone else in the NHS hates doctors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy
Black Wednesday (NHS rotation for new doctors)
- Thread starter Deadbeat
- Start date
I think you will find it's the opposite and most are extremely proud of the good doctors they get to work with. I doubt very much there is an envy from anyone competent bar the obvious discrepancy in pay. And in that case they would be correct because there is something intrinsically wrong there especially with the way the rapidly expanding private sector is handled both out and within the NHS.
Why would the other practitioners be envious of a profession they had the intelligence and drive to enter if they had wished to enter it?
Soldato
Quite simply it would make worse doctors. It is best to see many different ways and techniques (all of which may be correct and safe) and pick the best aspects from all of them rather than learn one way. The above statement assumes that each department at every hospital is the best at what it does and that all care is delivered the same way all over the country.
Also even if doctors didn't rotate you would still have new starters thus not avoiding the problem at all!
Soldato
I think you will find it's the opposite and most are extremely proud of the good doctors they get to work with. I doubt very much there is an envy from anyone competent bar the obvious discrepancy in pay. And in that case they would be correct because there is something intrinsically wrong there especially with the way the rapidly expanding private sector is handled both out and within the NHS.
Why would the other practitioners be envious of a profession they had the intelligence and drive to enter if they had wished to enter it?
Discrepancy of pay? Tell me more...
Associate
It's a good job more members of the public aren't aware of Black Wednesday, or the interior workings of the NHS. My aunt is the senior manager for the South-West region of the NHS, and she has told me that regionally and nationally the number of patient deaths increases by a pretty large spike. It's like the new trainees are let loose on real people with actual families. Very perturbing.
Though I agree with the legal immunity and lack of liability that most junior doctors have. I can't remember the circumstance but she told me there's pretty much only one way a junior doctor can be fired or dismissed or taken to court, or whatever... I can't remember what it is though. Perhaps some of the medical staff here can enlighten me?
Though I agree with the legal immunity and lack of liability that most junior doctors have. I can't remember the circumstance but she told me there's pretty much only one way a junior doctor can be fired or dismissed or taken to court, or whatever... I can't remember what it is though. Perhaps some of the medical staff here can enlighten me?
Soldato
Apart from the same recycled headlines every year at the start of August. Have any of the newspapers reported on the new compulsory F1 shadowing programme being rolled out this year? Shadowing was previously completely voluntary and unpaid arranged on an ad hoc basis.
Could you suggest a better way where new doctors are "let loose"? Perhaps only recruit experienced doctors?
Soldato
GMC provisional registration. In theory F1s should be directly supervised by consultants at all times. There are plenty of ways a new junior doctor can be reprimanded and fired. It's a real rarity.
In my opinion the F1 year should be part of medical school which is undertaken in hospitals associated with the medical school of training. A large number of people were displaced away from their home hospitals involuntarily when they started. In an ideal world...
Well I will if you clarify that rather vague post ... specifically you agree, disagree or genuinely don't know.
Associate
I don't read tabloids at all and I've rarely ever seen critical pieces ran on the NHS's "Black Wednesday" in the broadsheet media. Could just be me being especially myopic, though.
Soldato
Tongue in cheek. The starting salary of an F1 doctor is pretty rubbish considering the amount of work the hospitals get out of them. Perhaps highly paid compared to the catering staff but not compared to clinical staff. The starting salary of a nurse is the same as a junior doctor. Everyone is on the same pay scale.
I'm sure virgin health or atos would do such a great job
they would let people be doctors of the street to save them training costs and keep fat cats happy
Associate
Also what's he talking about a monopoly for? There are plenty of private health services around if he is suspicious or distrusting of the NHS quality of care. He has choice as a consumer in the healthcare market. It's not an NHS monopoly in this country at all.
Perhaps he'd prefer we have 2 state healthcare services? That would make sense.
Perhaps he'd prefer we have 2 state healthcare services? That would make sense.
Soldato
I didn't get the papers this Wednesday just gone but in previous years I've managed to find broadsheet papers reporting on this. It's an easy story.
A quick search on times online throws up a couple of stories over the last few months on this.
No, they are not. Medical staff are not subject to AfC neither is the management team. Let's take a comparison between the two main professions. Take a nurse consultant and a medical consultant both educated to the same level and the pay difference is profound. Then a private patient that the senior medical staff get paid for directly and the nurses get nothing extra for because the private cost is partially added to the ward budget.
The starting salary for a doctor is rubbish because it takes into account future monetary potential and ease of getting the candidate, the training the hospital is giving the person, the lack of autonomy and overall responsibility the junior has. Doctors have somewhere to go somewhere to aim for nurses have no real way to achieve that doing their job and have to move into management positions and we then wonder why there is a serious skill drain, constant re-invention of the wheel, and extremes in the age of the workforce. The right ones leave and do not stay. If you don't think that is a problem then you should be worried.
Out of curiosity, who can I talk to about issues with blood test results? My doctor very flippantly replied that my blood test results were all fine (there were a barrage of tests including one for testosterone).
Serum t4 15.2 tmol
sex hormone globulin 25nmol
Serum 22.1nmol
free test 524tmol
Serum t4 15.2 tmol
sex hormone globulin 25nmol
Serum 22.1nmol
free test 524tmol
Soldato
The argument is really about junior doctors here. However all nurses and doctors are on the same NHS pay scale (band 1-9 dependent on experience and years in service). I'm not going to start even attempting to argue the upper echelons of the scale as I have never been involved in it. The point I was trying to illustrate is that the most junior members of staff are paid pretty equally. The level of responsibility of an F1 doesn't seem much if you've been through the mill a bit but it's the most junior members of the clinical team that the NHS gets the most value from.
ask for a copy of your results (should be able to get a printout for a small charge) and then call your local private healthcare provider, and ask for an appointment with a consultant endocrinologist
it's not as expensive as you might think, eg around £200 for a 30 min appointment
No, the thread is about 'Black Wednesday' the point I made was in response to another poster saying other people in the NHS were jealous of doctors, ie like the OP, to which I replied I thought not bar the pay discrepancies. And are doctors on the pay scale as everyone else?
The upper-echelons of the scale ie where people get to at the critical stage of their life and have a real need to spend money is therefore extremely important. If you seriously think that you would get the same level of candidate if doctors were paid the same as other staff then you are very deluded but then you yourself admit you know nothing about what happens there.
You would really need to back that last part up because it makes no sense. A top surgeon can attract massive investment and demonstrate enormous value to a trust both in prestige, training and attracting private income. Likewise a band 7-8 nurse in a clinical co-ordinator role will not be on twice that of a band 5 but will offer significantly more through their experience and ability to function completely without support and guidance 99% of the time whereas the band 5 will constantly need to check their conclusions, be unable to perform a large number of procedures etc.
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Haha, I'm about the poorest student going, there's absolutely no way in hell I could stump up that much!
They've got me booked in for a camera up the arse however. :/
Can I ask to see a endocrinologist on the NHS? I've got a really wide range of symptoms which have been persisting for a long time now and they're still wandering around with different things.
Generic response for a long time was "depression".
OcUK is not the place to ask this. Your doctor is. The fact that they have told you your results are in the normal range indicates that you may not benefit from seeing a specialist who will just look at your results and say there is nothing there in their domain for them to investigate.