Unpaid rent dispute

[Street]

I thought I'd draw upon the collective brain of GD about a tenancy dispute my missus is having.

A couple years ago, she moved in with me and she put her house up for rent. We had tenants in on a 6 month lease and all was fine. However, her sister was desperate to move out of her parents house, where she was living with her husband and two kids. Despite my advice to the contrary, she ended the current tenants contract and her sister moved in with her family.

Now here is the stupid thing. My missus didn't make her since a tenancy agreement, it was verbal only. However she agreed to pay the same market value rent on the first of every month.

Fast forward six months or so and her sister tells her that she can't afford to pay the rent on the first of that month. Not a problem as previously she's always been good, however after much badgering she finally pays around the 20th. Come the next month, the same happens with her sister being aggressive, rude and paying late. The following month she tells my missus that she'll only be paying half the rent. I've been saying that she needs to be out of the house and this is the final straw. Notice is given and she is meant to be out by the end of August, moving back into her parents. Now she didn't pay any of Augusts rent and owes around £1000 now.

We've been civil with her and asked for the money nicely and tried to do everything above board. The missus doesn't want to disrupt the family and cause problems, but now she feels she can't go back to see her parents and brother because her sister is living there. Her sister has told her she can stick the money and has no intention of ever paying her. We have the text messages to prove it.

I said we should write a letter to her stating what she owes, then if she ignores that we go via the governments Money Claim service. We received a text last night saying "Don't bother sending me a letter, it'll be a waste of a stamp as it'll go straight in the bin. You aren't getting a penny from me." She'd apparently been going through her mum's texts messages and read what my missus has sent.

In my mind, she is a total waste of space and I'd be quite happy if I never saw her again. She is a grade A **** who has always got her own way in the family and I can't stand her, she has been rude and threatening. It's upsetting my missus and I'm out of pocket over it. I'm determined not to let her get away with it!

If this actually went to court, how would she stand seeing as she didn't have a written contract? Surely by paying the rent for six months that is an acceptance of a contract?

Any advice is appreciated!

 

[enigma27]

You need to seek legal advise

Without a written contract I am sure she could say what she paid was a token gesture to her sister and there was no agreement in place to confirm what rent per month was.

 

[Mr Badger]

Sounds like a case for Judge Judy.

 

[tom_e]

If this actually went to court, how would she stand seeing as she didn't have a written contract? Surely by paying the rent for six months that is an acceptance of a contract?

Any advice is appreciated!

Pretty much, a verbal contract is still a binding one and you've got proof that she has been paying and also texts saying she has no intention of paying anything back and therefore proof that she had a debt.

It'll probably be more of a pain in the arse than that but I don't see why it wouldn't settle in your favour in the end.

 

[PapaLazaru]

I would ignore the money and just get them evicted.

 

[Street]

It'll probably be more of a pain in the arse than that but I don't see why it wouldn't settle in your favour in the end.

That was my thinking. I'm fully prepared to take on the hassle to teach her a much deserved life lesson though.

Sounds like a case for Judge Judy.

She'd fit right in on there.. Thankfully the rest of the family is good!

I would ignore the money and just get them evicted.

We have, they were out at the end of August. We've got new tenants in there again.

 

[Hathaway]

Can your wife's parents not act as intermediaries to help get this resolved? I'm sure they don't want to see a split in the family over money. If she's living with them again they could lean on her a little.
She sounds awful though...

 

[grumpysculler]

A pattern of rent payments clearly supports your side of the story. If you have emails/texts talking about rent or paying you back then they support your case even more.

It's up to you - consider it money well spent in getting rid, or put everyone through the grinder to get money via courts. The principle of it isn't always worth the bother.

 

[Jamesyboyjim]

It'll be nothing but a nightmare for you both. My advise would be to just try and forget about it, get the place rented again (I see you have now) and forget she ever existed.

Why did she turn nasty and fall behind? Did she lose her job? Or was she just getting jealous and resentful about paying her sister money?

Now against my own advice, I'd be wanting to teach her a lesson too but even if you get the grand back, the stress caused will probably not be worth it.

 

[enigma27]

Pretty much, a verbal contract is still a binding one and you've got proof that she has been paying and also texts saying she has no intention of paying anything back and therefore proof that she had a debt.

It'll probably be more of a pain in the arse than that but I don't see why it wouldn't settle in your favour in the end.

Where can verbal contracts apply?

According to UK law, verbal contracts are binding where two or more parties agree on services to be performed and on remuneration for said services. However, verbal contracts do not apply to certain types of agreements which require detailed and specific terms. For example, written contracts are necessary for property purchase or tenancy agreements, consumer credit contracts, and the transfer or licensing of intellectual property rights. Any contracts including a guarantee must also be prepared in writing in order to be valid and legally binding.

According to this Verbal contracts do not apply in this case.

 

[rawuk]

Is the money and enjoyment of punishing her worth the stress this will likely place on you misses and your own relationship with the rest of her family?

That would be my only consideration prior to pursuing proper legal advice.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I would seek actual legal advice but please tell me that she registered the bond and all properly or you could have issues.

 

[Xire]

Get Judge Grindr on the blower.

 

[tom_e]

Where can verbal contracts apply?

According to UK law, verbal contracts are binding where two or more parties agree on services to be performed and on remuneration for said services. However, verbal contracts do not apply to certain types of agreements which require detailed and specific terms. For example, written contracts are necessary for property purchase or tenancy agreements, consumer credit contracts, and the transfer or licensing of intellectual property rights. Any contracts including a guarantee must also be prepared in writing in order to be valid and legally binding.

According to this Verbal contracts do not apply in this case.

https://www.simplifythelaw.co.uk/re...reements/oral-verbal-tenancy-agreements-valid

A verbal tenancy agreement is valid unless it is for a fixed term of more than three years (in which case it needs to be in writing).

As soon as a tenant starts to pay rent, a legal tenancy is created even if there is no tenancy agreement in writing.

 

[Street]

Can your wife's parents not act as intermediaries to help get this resolved? I'm sure they don't want to see a split in the family over money. If she's living with them again they could lean on her a little.
She sounds awful though...

Annoyingly they're refusing to get involved.

Why did she turn nasty and fall behind? Did she lose her job? Or was she just getting jealous and resentful about paying her sister money?

I think it's just resentment. Her husband has a decent job as a commercial electrician where he works away a lot. She works part time. There are constant messages on Facebook about "spending daddies hard earned cash" and photos of new clothes, days out etc.

I'm hoping the Money Claim letter through the post will spur her into paying as she'll actually know my missus means business. She doesn't think my missus has the balls to go through with it.

 

[Dave M]

Get a nice little certificate printed saying "I release you of your debt" and give it the sister for Christmas. You'll never get the money so you may as well get some trolling points.

 

[Street]

I would seek actual legal advice but please tell me that she registered the bond and all properly or you could have issues.

Stupidly, she didn't take a deposit either! Which means we can't deduct for the state she left the interior of the house in. The other tenants have always been done through a letting agency so everything has been sorted with them.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Stupidly, she didn't take a deposit either! Which means we can't deduct for the state she left the interior of the house in.

If she didn't then my mum has dealt with a similar situation recently. It's going to be a massive pain in the ass to get her out now and you may struggle to get a judge on your side if stuff wasn't all done properly. I'm seeing her tonight so I'll ask her what you need to do.

 

[tom_e]

If she didn't then my mum has dealt with a similar situation recently. It's going to be a massive pain in the ass to get her out now and you may struggle to get a judge on your side if stuff wasn't all done properly. I'm seeing her tonight so I'll ask her what you need to do.

She's already out, this is purely down to the money owed by the looks of it.

 

[kefkef]

Forget about it and put it down to experience.