New extension - controlling costs and builders

[Mr.Stu]

Just submitted planning for a large single story wrap-around extension (Budget around £75K) and looking for advice on how to handle the next stage.

I'm in discussions with four builders, three of which come from word of mouth recommendations. All of them have been around for an initial chat or two, and have copies of plans drawn up by the architect.

Initial quotes are starting to come back in, and before settling on a builder, I want to make sure I get off on the right foot. My current plans are to request itemised quotes, but also provide them with a statement of works that I will draw up, and ask them to sign off on.

Will this level of detail scare them off?
What level of contract and itemisation should I expect?
What payment schedule is normally expected for a job this size?

Essentially I just want to make sure I don't get screwed in 5 months time, with them asking for more money for stuff that I thought was implied, and them not.

Cheers

Oh, and while I am here, did your architect also draft your party wall agreement?

 

[andicole0]

£75? wow!
We did a large extension some years ago and took on an architect as a project manager. You will need to arrange progress payments so don't pay all in one go and make sure progress is being made. I think it's a harder job than most people consider especially if there is some extensive construction affecting the existing house.
Andi.

 

[Mr.Stu]

£75? wow!
We did a large extension some years ago and took on an architect as a project manager. You will need to arrange progress payments so don't pay all in one go and make sure progress is being made. I think it's a harder job than most people consider especially if there is some extensive construction affecting the existing house.
Andi.

Thanks - my main concern is around costs spiralling upwards due to scope creep and "oh you wanted that as well?".

 

[andicole0]

Yes, we had a very detailed list of works before we started the build, any competent builder will be happy with that. Everything was listed and it helps to have a 3rd party to arbitrate if disagreement ensues, and better that person is working for you Don't forget the contingency because sometimes things just go wrong or go up in price.
Andi.

 

[Mr.Stu]

Thanks Andi. How detailed did you go? Down to number of sockets? Model of radiators? Very aware that they might just stick in the cheapest possible tat everywhere if I just say "4m bifolds" for example.

 

[sigma]

Yes, we had a very detailed list of works before we started the build, any competent builder will be happy with that. Everything was listed and it helps to have a 3rd party to arbitrate if disagreement ensues, and better that person is working for you Don't forget the contingency because sometimes things just go wrong or go up in price.
Andi.

What do you reckon, 20-25% of budget as contingency?

 

[PlacidCasual]

I don't know what your experience/knowledge or timescale is like but if you haven't already read it you should try the House Builders Bible. Previous editions have been a very easy read that takes you through all the different stages and can help you identify some of these pitfalls.

 

[pigeonguyuk]

The more detail you go into the better if it ever comes to a dispute. IF you know what you want for finishing touched sockets/lights etc then purchase them yourself and take them out of the overall budget, unless its some that the builder can specifically get at a big trade discount.

Agree an initial "supplies" payment, if worried pay it directly to the merchants yourself and get itemised receipts. Then agree payments at different completion stages. DONT agree payments after a fixed time period as this could result in the "oh it took longer than expected then want more for "labour" etc

 

[the_r_sole]

The more accurate detail you give, the more accurate your price will be, as an example for a small, two room single storey extension I recently tendered, there were 3 A1 drawing sheets and a 22 page schedule of works, from 4 builders the quotes came back with 800 quid between the top and bottom.
It also allows you to easily make cost savings or look for alternatives before you begin works.
Use a standard form of contract, there's various options for small works, make sure you understand the one you pick

 

[andicole0]

We had everything agreed including supplier of significant parts. If you don't know what quality products fit your requirements then again an architect will be helpful. Be aware though that real Architects can be a bit pricey and that there are a number who use the title without approval. RIBA is the architect institute and they can help put you in touch with local people. We interviewed 3 before selecting the friendly one. When we came to sell the involvement of an architect was extremely valuable.
You may also be able to take on a professional project manager at a lower cost.
Andi.

 

[andicole0]

What do you reckon, 20-25% of budget as contingency?

10% is usual but the more you can cover the more flexible you can be to change.
Andi.

 

[tom_nieto]

I've learned the following the hard (read: expensive) way...

Keep a contingency fund and don't spend it!

It is perfectly reasonable to supply the builder with technical drawings with absolutely every last socket and light fitting included. There is no harm in being exacting, but I think you have to be a bit realistic in that the supplier might change the cost of something for example - a final price to the penny is unlikely to happen. I would never go to a builder for a final quote with anything other than a full technical drawing in future (especially not for something as large as you're planning!). Ask for samples and make sure you're happy with the quality before you start. The shiny inside touches are really easy to negotiate, but they can get ridiculously expensive so be prepared (sockets are really expensive)! If the builder runs off at this level of detail they should be avoided imo.

I would also not start anything until you've got planning permission 100% sorted and signed off.

Be patient - proper planning before you start is absolutely key. If you try to jump ahead you'll come unstuck as something very simple can totally derail the project, especially if you're relying on a number of different things to happen at once. Delays snowball.

I would think a 10-20% deposit would be reasonable, but in all honesty this could be replaced by an early payment once groundwork is complete. Don't whatever you do agree to a set weekly payment!

Paul said you got him round for a quote! You might have to fight my folks for a time slot! Glad you're making progress.

 

[Maccapacca]

If you're not confident employ a professional to help you. It might cost you a couple of thousand and don't employ the architect they will have hidden agendas if things go wrong.

I wouldn't hire any firm that wants a deposit. They should be able to fund a couple of weeks of build.

Set stage payments and watch they don't front load the stages. Get a contract. Be clear in your demands from the outset and don't change a thing think about everything now, number of sockets, wall positions etc etc

 

[Mr.Stu]

Thanks for the perspective folks. Seems like the consensus is to draw up a contract and detailed SoW, followed by stage payments, so I'll aim for that!

Does anyone have a SoW, contract or party wall agreement that they have used and would be comfortable sharing?

 

[andicole0]

There are a number of templates for Word thrown up by Google for the SoW. I suspect You'll find the others too.
Andi.

 

[pigeonguyuk]

Heres a good example of schedule of works. Then on the back of it you can get individual quote breakdowns on taged payments ate staged intervals of completion. http://www.home-extension.co.uk/3 works.pdf

 

[the_r_sole]

Heres a good example of schedule of works. Then on the back of it you can get individual quote breakdowns on taged payments ate staged intervals of completion. http://www.home-extension.co.uk/3 works.pdf

that's a pretty good start - op if you are going to prepare something like that - set it all up in excel (with formulas to do the addition) and then when you get the tenders returned you can input the figures to double check the arithmetic - you'd be amazed at how many tenders are returned with an incorrect final sum!
If will also allow you to compare all the returned tenders side by side and see where the contractors prices are different, that should make cost savings easier or highlight where some items haven't been properly costed (windows and doors are the classic place for builders to do that - I recently had a sliding doorset specified which was a high spec item the client wanted, two builders priced it at 12k and one priced it at 4k because he hadn't read the size or the spec of it properly and had just asked his usual supplier for a cost.)

 

[Mr.Stu]

Thanks again folks - I'm glad I asked!

Do most people end up going following these good practices?

I'm pretty sure some of my friends/family have handed over crazy amounts of money to builders on verbal contracts with almost no detail!

Anyway, I'll crack on with the SoW and contract prep.

Cheers

 

[ShivP]

Thanks - my main concern is around costs spiralling upwards due to scope creep and "oh you wanted that as well?".

Creep is a thing - budget for it. It will happen

Ours (parents) initially started as a ~£110k extension, then creeped to £150k, then everything else looked old so the whole downstairs was gutted, then upstairs looked old so that is now happening so not surprised if it tops 200
It's never ending :/ unless the rest of the house is fairly modern already?

 

[platypus]

Just submitted planning for a large single story wrap-around extension (Budget around £75K) and looking for advice on how to handle the next stage.

I'm in discussions with four builders, three of which come from word of mouth recommendations. All of them have been around for an initial chat or two, and have copies of plans drawn up by the architect.

Initial quotes are starting to come back in, and before settling on a builder, I want to make sure I get off on the right foot. My current plans are to request itemised quotes, but also provide them with a statement of works that I will draw up, and ask them to sign off on.

Will this level of detail scare them off?
What level of contract and itemisation should I expect?
What payment schedule is normally expected for a job this size?

Essentially I just want to make sure I don't get screwed in 5 months time, with them asking for more money for stuff that I thought was implied, and them not.

Cheers

Oh, and while I am here, did your architect also draft your party wall agreement?

In a very similar boat to you, albeit several months ahead by the sounds of it. I would ask each of the builders to get a QS done. Those who say no, say thanks very much and move on. This will at least help you budget for materials. There will always be things that come up, eg structurally that might not have been accounted for, but a good QS should be able to by and large get very close costs for materials.

If you don't know it already, get ready to learn and love(hate) Excel.

Have a payment schedule, and itemise everything.