Alfie Evans...
- Thread starter kindai
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http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2018/805.html
This Court of Appeal judgment is the most recent, authoritative summary. The other judgments (and there are plenty of them) can be found by searching for Evans and sorting by date.
Parents don't own children and no one is seriously disputing that Alfie Evans has suffered catastrophic brain damage and will never recover. His interests come first and that, unfortunately, means being allowed to die in the stable environment of a hospital instead of going through an international air transfer to only receive more palliative care.
Soldato
I look after patients intubated via endotracheal tubes or Trache tubes daily and your right, there are very few places that can care for them. ENT, ITU, some eldercare rehab wards, acute respiratory wards (only if the patient is self caring with it). most paeds wards are fairly adept at looking after them as its mostly the parents with hands on care and the parents of trachied children are pretty switched on usually.
All this moaning at the parents, but you know damn right you'd do the same with your own children. Letting go of someone's life is one of the most difficult things to do, especially your own baby... It must be absolutely horrible and I doubt very much that they are thinking straight right now.
The boy has been terminally ill for most of his life where the outlook was grim from the get-go, so they haven't been thinking straight for the better part of 2 years. Other posters have also chimed in with their own experiences, such as one having to make the decision of turning off his baby daughter's life support after being diagnosed with a brain tumor, one so big where if it was successfully operated on her quality of life would be so poor that it wouldn't be a life worth living.
GOSH said during the Charlie Gard case that disputes between a terminally ill child's parents and doctors that need to be resolved by the courts are rare. The parents are going through hell but most people in their position accept (eventually) what is happening.
Associate
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In my hospital only our ITU, ENT and Stroke Ward are allowed trache patients, but as mentioned, those patients will generally always be looked after on a one to one basis unless the patient have had the trache for a long time and will be capable of looking after it themselves.
And if the patient have been intubated (breathing tube down the throat through the mouth for those who might not know) they will always be sedated whilst having the tube in place.
Caporegime
There’s not a chance I would do what this family are doing. They have dragged out this lads death for months already.
I wouldn't do the same thing at all. I would let him go.
Alder Hey go through the nose. And our boy was still intubated while allowed to come off Midazolam. How else would you start breathing for yourself. Only sedation he was having was oral chloral then he came off that as well. Then once you could see he was doing most of the breathing himself on the ventilator he was extubated and put on CPAP.
So no you won't always be sedated while the tube is there.
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I am not a parent but as mentioned earlier in the thread have been through this twice with the sister-in-law and never once did any of us think that the child would be better off not listening to medical advice given by the Drs.
Soldato
The amount of times now I’ve heard the media interviewing people and the phrase ‘they’re his parents they know what’s best for him’ is beyond belief!!
Last time I looked I wouldn’t go to my dad if I wanted any illness treating, why.....because he’s not a doctor!
Last time I looked I wouldn’t go to my dad if I wanted any illness treating, why.....because he’s not a doctor!
There are many instances where parents are overruled because children have rights and being a parent does not mean you get to ignore that.
Associate
I am very sorry to hear this, I can only imagine what it's like to need to use Bluebell Wood's services. However, I'm glad they have been able to help you and your family. I'm not sure how funding works for these places or whether there are other similar centres around the country, but they seem to do amazing, if terribly sad work.
Soldato
Looks like the parents won't be escalating to the supreme court at this time and instead want to discuss taking him home:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43904809
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43904809
Caporegime
Didn’t work for Charlie Gard, no one in their right mind would agree to get on that crazy train.
Soldato
I don't know enough about his care needs to comment really. I vaguely recall the Charlie Gard decision being based around the impracticalities of providing the equipment he would need. Part of me wonders if the possibility of moving him to a hospice might help the parents to come to terms with the situation a bit more but equally if I were running a hospice I'd be very concerned about the impact that could have on the other families who were being supported at the same time. The litigation element isn't too much of an issue but the rest of the crap they've managed to stir up in the community would give me pause.
Yeah I think a hospice is a no go given the big mob they bring with them, totally unfair on other families of sick kids.
They could have taken him home already if they weren't such idiots, the doctors would have been happy to allow it if it weren't for their attitude. Even yesterday they had a German air ambulance crew trying to sneak in a respirator in a suitcase before being escorted out by security. The obvious risk with sending him home is they try to just take him into Germany/Italy anyway. The fact they had supporters turning up with medical equipment, people trying to storm the hospital/ward and were doing things like trying to give him mouth to mouth indicates they're still massively in denial despite their barristers assertion that they realise they can only have palliative care now. Maybe they will take him home but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't trusted - could easily be some more silliness when he sadly does pass away like an ambulance being called or supporters turning up and trying god knows what to keep him alive etc...
They could have taken him home already if they weren't such idiots, the doctors would have been happy to allow it if it weren't for their attitude. Even yesterday they had a German air ambulance crew trying to sneak in a respirator in a suitcase before being escorted out by security. The obvious risk with sending him home is they try to just take him into Germany/Italy anyway. The fact they had supporters turning up with medical equipment, people trying to storm the hospital/ward and were doing things like trying to give him mouth to mouth indicates they're still massively in denial despite their barristers assertion that they realise they can only have palliative care now. Maybe they will take him home but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't trusted - could easily be some more silliness when he sadly does pass away like an ambulance being called or supporters turning up and trying god knows what to keep him alive etc...
Soldato
A child is not the parents property. Never has been and never will be.
The child is treated as an entity and the right to life clause is applied. Everyone’s right to life shall be protected by law and yes that even means the law is responsible for stepping in when the right for a person to live is not appropriate given the circumstances.
Soldato
Seeing the world through secular eyes sure does bear horrible fruits. On the one hand you have the great NHS hospital Alder Hey that removed children's organs and body parts without permission. On the other you have Bambino G, whoes head travelled to Liverpool that said Alfie, could travel without suffering.
Soldato
I've heard this nonsense reply twice now to Strife, I can't see where he said that Alfie, is his parents property? He's talking about their wishes as his guardians. Alas parents wishes are ignored if it doesn't fall in line rightly or wrongly.