Widening graduate gender pay gap

[stockhausen]

According to the Guardian (LINK) there is a widening graduate gender pay gap linked to family, social background and school. It is suggested that this is happening despite the claim that "girls" do better than "boys" at secondary school level in exams.

I wonder whether there are other factors at play here.

• Traditionally, are (potentially high achieving) males more likely to be encouraged to be more ambitious than (potentially high achieving) females?
  
• As a general rule, females are still more likely to take time out to care for young children.
• It is probably more expected that a male will be the bread winner than the female in a family.

Official statistics certainly seem to support the Guardian's claim but without knowing the reasons for the disparity, nothing is going to change any time soon.

 

[Thecaferacer]

This has been explored several times in recent years and the general theme that emerges is that males are more likely to spend a disproportionate amount of time at work and sacrifice a social life.

Women are also more likely to pause their career in their 30s to have children and pursue a more balanced Life versus men who will sacrifice nearly everthing to gain the top jobs and pay.

The stats suggest that up until mid 30s, males and females are equal pegged in professional jobs and earnings, which then drops off sharply for obvious reasons. When you look at the mean average earnings, ignoring the top and bottom outliers, the pay gap is neglible in like for like jobs.

 

[stockhausen]

This has been explored several times in recent years and the general theme that emerges is that males are more likely to spend a disproportionate amount of time at work and sacrifice a social life.

Women are also more likely to pause their career in their 30s to have children and pursue a more balanced Life versus men who will sacrifice nearly everthing to gain the top jobs and pay.

The stats suggest that up until mid 30s, males and females are equal pegged in professional jobs and earnings, which then drops off sharply for obvious reasons. When you look at the mean average earnings, ignoring the top and bottom outliers, the pay gap is negligible in like for like jobs.

So not something that is going to be changed in a hurry then? Although the article does suggest that even up to their 30s, female remuneration does not keep up with that for males.

 

[Roar87]

Men are just more driven than Women to earn more money, we work longer hours on average, take harder degrees on average, are more likely to ask for a pay rise, etc. This will never change because the primary driver is testosterone which makes us more competitive, aggressive and more likely to take risks, and the fact that money makes us more attractive to women which makes us want to earn more; where as for women isn't really true. Conversely due to this we're also more likely to get sent to prison, become addicted to gambling, drugs, commit suicide, etc.

 

[d_brennen]

From my experience, young men are somehwat more willing to up sticks and leave a one horse town to find better work

 

[Thecaferacer]

Men are just more driven than Women to earn more money, we work longer hours on average, take harder degrees on average, are more likely to ask for a pay rise, etc

You obviously don't work alongside female lawyers!

Most law firms are desparate to retain their female graduates and qualified lawyers, but a lot are making the logical decision of having families and picking up their careers later at a lower level than male colleagues who never left.

 

[Hades]

Men are just more driven than Women to earn more money, we work longer hours on average, take harder degrees on average, are more likely to ask for a pay rise, etc. This will never change because the primary driver is testosterone which makes us more competitive, aggressive and more likely to take risks, and the fact that money makes us more attractive to women which makes us want to earn more; where as for women isn't really true. Conversely due to this we're also more likely to get sent to prison, become addicted to gambling, drugs, commit suicide, etc.

Pretty much this.

 

[Alex_6n2]

The Standford University study into the gender pay gap for Uber drivers gives some interesting insight into how differences in pay is often far more complex than just if you're male or female: https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/UberPayGap.pdf

The choices you make have such a big impact, given that it is illegal to pay people differently because of their gender the debate is focusing the wrong things.

 

[aardvark]

The Standford University study into the gender pay gap for Uber drivers gives some interesting insight into how differences in pay is often far more complex than just if you're male or female: https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/UberPayGap.pdf

The choices you make have such a big impact, given that it is illegal to pay people differently because of their gender the debate is focusing the wrong things.

this - to reduce a complex set of factors to a binary male vs female is intellectually dishonest and not how statistics works.

 

[kaku]

The Standford University study into the gender pay gap for Uber drivers gives some interesting insight into how differences in pay is often far more complex than just if you're male or female: https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/UberPayGap.pdf

The choices you make have such a big impact, given that it is illegal to pay people differently because of their gender the debate is focusing the wrong things.

Exactly. This influx of "gender pay gap" articles are nothing but low-tier clickbait. It's a shame journalism has gone from a profession to copy and pasting from reddit.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Traditionally, are (potentially high achieving) males more likely to be encouraged to be more ambitious than (potentially high achieving) females?

Traditionally, but being at uni myself, I would say females seem to have a greater drive than the males (attainment certainly seems to back that up with females on average getting better grades).

As a general rule, females are still more likely to take time out to care for young children.

That may explain the gaps existence in the first instance, but it doesn't explain why it's widening (which is the crux of the linked article).

It is probably more expected that a male will be the bread winner than the female in a family.

Again, how does that influence the widening pay gap? If anything, as old fashioned attitudes such as males being the breadwinner die off, that should reduce the pay gap, not increase it.

 

[stockhausen]

. . . to reduce a complex set of factors to a binary male vs female is intellectually dishonest and not how statistics works.

That sounds like a massive cop-out; "this whole issue is very complex so let's move on to something simple . . .".

Intellectually dishonest and statistically invalid it may be but it still appears to be the case that for some reason there is a widening graduate gender pay gap.

Traditionally, but being at uni myself, I would say females seem to have a greater drive than the males (attainment certainly seems to back that up with females on average getting better grades).

That may explain the gaps existence in the first instance, but it doesn't explain why it's widening (which is the crux of the linked article).

Again, how does that influence the widening pay gap? If anything, as old fashioned attitudes such as males being the breadwinner die off, that should reduce the pay gap, not increase it.

Fair comment; none of the factors I have mentioned explain the somewhat surprising finding that the gender gap is widening rather than shrinking as one might expect in the 21st Century.

 

[Quartz]

It is suggested that this is happening despite the claim that "girls" do better than "boys" at secondary school level in exams

That girls mature earlier than boys is well-known. So the fact that boys catch up when they do mature is hardly rocket science.

 

[Orionaut]

this - to reduce a complex set of factors to a binary male vs female is intellectually dishonest and not how statistics works.

Indeed, After all, where do gender fluid attack helicopters fit into this picture?

 

[dowie]

Sociology lectures, full of women.... Engineering lectures, full of men.

Men get paid more? No ****, who'd have thought that useful, in demand professional skills are worth more.

Having said that women are well represented in medicine and that’s usually the top subject in terms of pay. AFAIK Law has a good balance of both genders.

 

[Caracus2k]

Sociology lectures, full of women.... Engineering lectures, full of men.

Men get paid more? No ****, who'd have thought that useful, in demand professional skills are worth more.

Having said that women are well represented in medicine and that’s usually the top subject in terms of pay. AFAIK Law has a good balance of both genders.

University Subject choice .. And subsequent career choices are a huge part...

Females are numerically superior as medical students at uni but they still more often than not choose roles subsequently like GP that have less pay but are less demanding experience and time wise then some surgery displines and as previously stated law firms struggle to retain a lot woman as full term employres past their mod 30's

 

[dowie]

GPs actually have quite a hefty workload, my friends who are GPs (all female) tend to work part time (3 days a week), still get 50k+ though... full time GP role could be quite stressful and more that 40 hours.

My sister on the other hand is a Consultant in a hospital, she is on a full time contract, but there is a sweet workaround - as a full time contract is 40 hours a week, she can opt to work 4 * 10 hour days... so still be paid full time while having an extra day off.

In a regular workplace I’m not sure that would fly as it is quite common for salaried professionals to work beyond their contracted hours anyway, you’d basically be getting a load of extra holidays.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

That girls mature earlier than boys is well-known. So the fact that boys catch up when they do mature is hardly rocket science.

They don't catch up though - girls do better at Degree, Masters and Ph.D level as well (Ph.D is harder to quantify as you don't get a grade, but one metric we do measure is completion time which is shorter for females).

 

[Roar87]

They don't catch up though - girls do better at Degree, Masters and Ph.D level as well (Ph.D is harder to quantify as you don't get a grade, but one metric we do measure is completion time which is shorter for females).

They catch up in the work place clearly

 

[Caracus2k]

They don't catch up though - girls do better at Degree, Masters and Ph.D level as well (Ph.D is harder to quantify as you don't get a grade, but one metric we do measure is completion time which is shorter for females).

Do you have the data adjusted for the different types of study being undertaken?

Men are know to on average enter different area of study to women.

A person with a gender studies PhD should not be compared to someone with an engineering PhD.