Caporegime
Consider that a blessing.
Centre right is where it’s at for me. Although I don’t think we really have a centre right party any more. Tories have shifted further right.
Australia re-elects the Liberals
- Thread starter Thecaferacer
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Centre right is where it’s at for me. Although I don’t think we really have a centre right party any more. Tories have shifted further right.
Caporegime
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- 30 Jul 2013
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You are right that we don't have a real far right party, now that the BNP isn't a thing.
Which isn't to say the far right don't exist here in small numbers.
They exist everywhere in small numbers. The real problem is the far left exist here in large numbers now and they are just as bad.
Caporegime
Is that the real problem? Or is the problem you? Or me?
Is that supposed to be a philosophical or probing question?
Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide? No escape from reality? Discuss.
I realise that there is no discussion here anyway, just endless clashes between groups who have no interest in changing their opinions.
So perhaps the question is "Why the heck are any of us still posting here, knowing as we do that the result is always the same?"
Caporegime
Not true, the polls predicted a narrow victory for Labor at best. Australia has a preferential voting system, and the current government is a Liberal/National coalition, so it's not entirely surprising that they won.
The Liberals played it safe by sticking with Morrison, who is centre-right (as opposed to Abbott, who was hard right). Labor's big mistake was to keep Shorten for too long. I reckon they would have won with Albanese at the helm.
Both of the two major parties suffered negative swings and protest votes from Australians sick and tired of their shenanigans. Morrison has led his party to a result that's shakier than it first appears.
The big losers were the populist/hard right nutters:
* Tony Abbott: suffered a colossal -12% swing and lost the seat he's held for 25 years to a local Independent
* Fraser Anning: lost his seat
* Clive Palmer: lost his seat
* United Australia Party: didn't win a single seat
* Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party: didn't win a single seat
I voted Greens, and they've performed well in the Senate, so I'm happy.
It’s not as though the Australian far right* made big strides, is it?
Fraser Anning lost his seat for a start, and his Conservative National Party didn’t win a singe seat.
*Relative to the centre right, I’m not calling Fraser Anning a Nazi before anyone starts.
Fraser Anning lost his seat for a start, and his Conservative National Party didn’t win a singe seat.
*Relative to the centre right, I’m not calling Fraser Anning a Nazi before anyone starts.
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Soldato
Well traditionally outside efforts to derail Australian democracy have been American and British... http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-...rushed-the-government-of-their-ally-australia
Just sayin'.
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Caporegime
Well traditionally outside efforts to derail Australian have been American and British... http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-...rushed-the-government-of-their-ally-australia
Just sayin'.
Conspiracy theorist nonsense. Whitlam was legitimately removed by the Governor General after precipitating a constitutional crisis. The system worked as intended, and there was no outside influence.
Permabanned
Evidence of this?
‘The left’ and ‘the right’ are terms that really need dropping. People just love the idea of having some sort of enemy and they find it in either of these impossibly broad groups defined as whatever they want to mean.
You know a while back (in the 2000s) we had people saying, shockingly, “Muslims that want peace aren’t real Muslims”? Well the latest (2010s) iteration of that bull**** is “the right want this” or “the left want this”. The views of a few are taken to become the true colours of the ‘hive mind’ of thousands / millions.
There is always a battle to be won if you want - derp \o/
You know a while back (in the 2000s) we had people saying, shockingly, “Muslims that want peace aren’t real Muslims”? Well the latest (2010s) iteration of that bull**** is “the right want this” or “the left want this”. The views of a few are taken to become the true colours of the ‘hive mind’ of thousands / millions.
There is always a battle to be won if you want - derp \o/
Labour with their....
Self proclaimed Marxist Chancellor who says he will be the first socialist UK Labour Chancellor (if the current incarnation of Labour ever get power) and who wants to force companies to hand over 10% (for now....) of their worth to their workers (but in reality the state will own this share and will reap benefits after paying employees a low capped amount)
A prime minster who advocates occupying private property
A shadow home secretary who, on balance, thinks Mao was a good thing for the Chinese
A shadow womans and equalities minister who wants to bring in gender and racial hiring quotas via the back door under threats of fines and removal of the ability to apply for goverment contracts
Etc
Permabanned
Actual evidence then? zero.
Soldato
There are real power and political blocks and if we can't name them, we can't discuss them. Right and Left are real political terms and whilst they're a crude implement they're still useful. Meanings shift over time but some of that shift is simply a lack of awareness of the original meanings. For example, the political Left has become almost entirely synonymous with Globalist. It hasn't always been and wont always be but currently the overlap between Globalists and Leftists is near total. Conversely the overlap between Globalist and Right-wing is far less. It exists - primarily in the Right's leadership but fights a running battle with the Nartionalist Right. Similarly, the Left's leadership is overwhelmingly Progressive as is much of the European Right's leadership but not the American Right's leadership. The huge overlap of current Left-Wing with Progressive and Globalist causes people who are critical of these things to largely identify as being against the Left and thus think of themselves as Right Wing. In essence, the Right becomes that faction of refuge for anyone who is anti-Globalist, non-Progressive. I agree with you that the term Left Wing and Right Wing get messed about a lot, but my solution is that people properly understand the nuances of Globalist, Left-Wing and Progressive, not abandon terms. Because as I said at the start, if we can't name something we can't discuss it or oppose it.
Soldato
Antifa. Mainstream US politicians supporting them. Majority academics that are overwhelmingly Left Wing and not infrequently actual Marxists. Gross partisanship towards the Left on the part of major social media companies like Twitter. Court bias. Leftists outrage mobs that destroy people's career. Plenty of evidence.
But none that you will accept.
Permabanned
No, because its all opinion rather than actual evidence.
Caporegime
What would count as evidence for you?
Perhaps it would help if you defined, in your mind, what would actually constitute the 'left' and the 'far left' .....
For clarity I would say that the following are more indicative of 'far left' politics
1) advocating for a move towards actual socialism by forcing private industries to hand over control of part or all of there industry to the state without financial compensation, at market rates, for the loss
2) advocating that your supporters 'occupy' private property whisky justifying it along class/econmic lines that the properties to be occupied belong to the 'rich'
3) trying to enforce equality of outcome via quotas for gender race etc
4) being a self declared Marxist
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I think only tend to think of left wing and right wing as indicative terms as to a persons means of rationalisation.
With left wing I think the underlying principle at the core of the decision making is: “everyone should be free to do as they wish”.
With right wing I think the underlying principle is: “everyone is responsible for themselves”.
Both are good positions to start from, in a vacuum, and then differences start emerging when you start dealing with how to manage a nation.
“People are not financially equal so this must be addressed”
“This is true, but only to a degree as people must take personal responsibility”
Etc
How left wing or right wing you are depends on how much weight you place on either position.
My personal views aside, it’s very obvious that some groups can be said to be more left wing and more right wing. But there is such scope for variety in either group that talking about them as if there is only one true left and one true right is a bit of a nonsense.
For what it’s worth, I think it’s obvious that being somewhere in the middle is obviously the most reasonable place to be.
Sorry, just a load of waffle
Permabanned
Either way, having never had a far left government(ever? in recent times) there is no evidence the left is just as bad. Where we can clearly see how bad a right wing government is, our current one.