Ships under attack in the middle east

[dowie]

Yes I'm saying the UK isn't a US stooge.

For example - does the UK support US sanctions on Iran?

Does the UK take the same stance as the current US administration re: the nuclear deal?

Answer to both is no... while we're also worried (as are other civilised nations) about Iran's actions in the region we have our own foreign policy towards Iran that doesn't always line up with that of the US.

 

[Rroff]

Seems founded in a commercial dispute based on Iranian court rulings.

Please given an example of what the UK did to the Iranian tanker: seized a ship based on arbitrary law that came out of nowhere.

Try again - MV Maersk Tigris was seized unilaterally by Iran in waters designated as part of an international strait - the case for seizing it is little different in many respects - Iran had decided there was a legal basis, the EU had decided there was a legal basis. The crew of the Tigris claim they were in an international shipping lane at the point of being intercepted. So do you likewise condemn this action by Iran? it sets a bad example going forward.

A general distress call sent out by the Maersk Tigris on Tuesday morning was picked up by US Naval Forces Central Command (NAVCENT).

A Pentagon spokesman said Iranian Revolutionary Guards Navy patrol vessels had approached the ship while it was moving through Iranian territorial waters, but inside an area that under international agreement is open to foreign ships making an "innocent passage".

The patrol vessels ordered the container ship to go deeper into Iranian waters, but the master refused. Only when they fired warning shots across its bow, did he comply.

 

[EvilSooty]

Anyway, I'm off to bed.

This forum never ceases to amaze me. I have learned that no action of the UK government is too stupid that it cannot be defended.

Apparently to the mentally deficient defenders of UK policy here this whole episode is really about enforcing EU law (yeah, the EU which we are about to leave) and has nothing whatsoever to do with following the orders of the US in escalating tensions with Iran.

- The UK isn't a US vassal despite decades of evidence showing otherwise.
- We only care about EU law and there are NO geopolitical considerations to us seizing an Iranian ship EIGHT YEARS after the sanctions were
imposed.
- The UK's actions are not at all to blame for Iran seizing our ship today even though we seized their's first.
- Ignorance is strengh, freedom is slavery and war is peace.

doubleplusgood!

 

[EvilSooty]

Yes I'm saying the UK isn't a US stooge.

For example - does the UK support US sanctions on Iran?

Does the UK take the same stance as the current US administration re: the nuclear deal?

Answer to both is no... while we're also worried (as are other civilised nations) about Iran's actions in the region we have our own foreign policy towards Iran that doesn't always line up with that of the US.

You are right. They are so supportive of the nuclear deal that at the same time the US is ramping up sanctions and rhetoric to Iran we decide to seize an Iranian ship eight years after sanctions were imposed and during which time NO EU NATION took similar action.

That's how committed we are.

Iran's actions in the region? Ha, how about ours? Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, the backing of jihadis in Syria. How myopic.

 

[EvilSooty]

Try again - MV Maersk Tigris was seized unilaterally by Iran in waters designated as part of an international strait - the case for seizing it is little different in many respects - Iran had decided there was a legal basis, the EU had decided there was a legal basis. The crew of the Tigris claim they were in an international shipping lane at the point of being intercepted. So do you likewise condemn this action by Iran? it sets a bad example going forward.

Sure, I'll condemn that as you solve commercial disputes in court, not by seizing ships.

Now getting back to recent history and what spurred the current situation do you condemn the British seizure of the Iranian tanker?

 

[dowie]

Apparently to the mentally deficient defenders of UK policy here this whole episode is really about enforcing EU law (yeah, the EU which we are about to leave) and has nothing whatsoever to do with following the orders of the US in escalating tensions with Iran.

- The UK isn't a US vassal despite decades of evidence showing otherwise.
- We only care about EU law and there are NO geopolitical considerations to us seizing an Iranian ship EIGHT YEARS after the sanctions were
imposed.
- The UK's actions are not at all to blame for Iran seizing our ship today even though we seized their's first.
- Ignorance is strengh, freedom is slavery and war is peace.

No one claimed there were no geopolitical considerations.
You've not provided any evidence of the UK previously allowing blatant breaches of EU sanctions.
No one claimed the Iranian actions today aren't in response to the UK's actions either...
The reference to EU law is in reply to your repeated claims about International law and "EU law doesn't apply to Iran" etc.. it had to be pointed out to you multiple times that Gibraltar is an EU member and EU does indeed apply there.

Try reading and replying to the actual points that have been made/what has been written in the posts you're responding to as you seem to be throwing in straw man agreements all over the place.

 

[Rroff]

Sure, I'll condemn that as you solve commercial disputes in court, not by seizing ships.

Now getting back to recent history and what spurred the current situation do you condemn the British seizure of the Iranian tanker?

As per my earlier post I've not seen it confirmed yet at what point the ship was seized - it makes a material difference if it was seized in a designated international shipping way versus territorial waters.

If the Grace 1 was seized while enjoying the rights of innocent passage then it would be illegal without a UN resolution.

 

[Amp34]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...etaliation-iran-hormuz?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Some interesting commentary here...

Carl Bildt, the former Swedish prime minister and co-chair of the European council on foreign relations, pinpointed the ambiguities of the British action in Gibraltar: “The legality of the UK seizure of a tanker heading for Syria with oil from Iran intrigues me. One refers to EU sanctions against Syria, but Iran is not a member of the EU. And the EU as a principle doesn’t impose its sanctions on others. That’s what the US does.”

So not as cut and dry as people suggest. The US leaning on the UK and in response we’re bending over as usual.

Unfortunately the whole thing is a mess caused by Trump having a petty hatred of his predecessor. No one is innocent here. The Iranians took the tanker after the Gibraltar court ruled theirs was going to be held for another 30 days, on an apparently ambiguous charge, which most of the UKs European allies are not happy with. It’s not coincidental timing...

Let’s just hope it doesn’t lead to war like some people in here seem to be hoping for.

Iran is already pushing to speed up the nuclear deal by offering to ratify the “Additional Protocal” several years early. Perhaps they can put Trumps name on top and his ego will override the opinions of Republican and Israeli hawks.

If this all gets sorted then perhaps we can go back to trying to sort out the Saudi-Iran proxy war causing much of the instability in the region.

 

[Rroff]

So not as cut and dry as people suggest.

I'm yet to see it established exactly where the interception of Grace 1 took place - if it was in the recognised straits area that is a hugely different story versus if it had wandered into Gibraltar's territorial waters.

 

[RoboCod]

Oh I so loved the Sooty show.... When I was a kid

Remember everyone, you're all stupid and you need a law degree to understand law now to

 

[sityeuropa]

The Syria fiasco was a load of BS anyway. Arming terrorists to overthrow Assad, Multiple false flag chemical attacks. I don't recognise the EU sanctions, there were other motives at work other than Assad bad man.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

Biggest problem is the UK is too limp wristed to do anything about it aside from a few harshly worded statements.

Be awesome once the US withdraws its fleets from shipping lanes, these kinds of acts of piracy will become commonplace with nobody willing to spend on defending them.

 

[sityeuropa]

Biggest problem is the UK is too limp wristed to do anything about it aside from a few harshly worded statements.

Be awesome once the US withdraws its fleets from shipping lanes, these kinds of acts of piracy will become commonplace with nobody willing to spend on defending them.

Do you agree with EU sanctions on Syria? Do you think the Syrian regime should have been overthrown?

A lot of people are just seeing the headline 'Iran steals UK tanker' and not the reasons for it.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Shame we haven’t sent a few missiles in. As usual we have a weak government and the world knows it.

 

[Nasher]

But nothing that serious has happened, no one has been killed. So we would look like the bad guys if he started missiling things.

Montrose could have shredded those small boats last week, but they didn't need to. They left. Now that our tankers have been asked to avoid the straight, Iran will have to go well in to international waters to get to them. Which makes them fair game.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Shame we haven’t sent a few missiles in. As usual we have a weak government and the world knows it.

Get real, you can't start throwing missiles around for something like this.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Get real, you can't start throwing missiles around for something like this.

Well they wouldn’t take our ships again.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Well they wouldn’t take our ships again.

Perhaps, but they might imprison the ~50 people on-board those ships for life.

Stopping Iran exporting any oil would be the ultimate punishment.

 

[Dis86]

Perhaps, but they might imprison the ~50 people on-board those ships for life.

Stopping Iran exporting any oil would be the ultimate punishment.

There's only about 20 people aboard a ship.

 

[XeNoN89]

Doubt we'll do much as we are currently run by spineless politicians. If this happened in the good old Maggy Thatcher days she would.have sent the SBS straight in to retake the ships