How many years to enlarge the Royal Navy

[Rroff]

So nothing Iran has could possibly sink one of these, were they so inclined.

I'm sure you guys aren't saying they're impervious to harm, but that's the impression you're giving

Saturation attack potentially could be a thing - but Iran would also need to know where the ships were roughly even with (fire and forget) "smart" munitions and if their aerial assets are locked down that becomes much harder. So far the systems on the Type 45 have proven effective against the real world performance of much of what they'd potentially be up against which is often lower than the headline potential figures i.e. some missiles might be capable of say Mach 5+ on paper but realistically can't exceed Mach 2 in any useful combat way if you actually want to hit a target.

Also Type 45s have a tiny radar signature which helps to make them more resilient.

 

[ubersonic]

So nothing Iran has could possibly sink one of these, were they so inclined.

I'm sure you guys aren't saying they're impervious to harm, but that's the impression you're giving

Technically everything they have could sink one, or two, but that's only because they don't have enough missiles to stop that many attackers. In theory one Type-45 with an infinite ammo hack could defeat the entire Iranian Air Force, that's how damn good they are.

The funny thing is, the Type-45 was built after losses in the Falklands showed we needed a decent anti air vessel capable of engaging enemy aircraft and/or anti-ship missiles, and after many many years they entered service at a billion a ship. However if we hadn't converted our CATOBAR aircraft carriers to STOVL to save money and built our new carriers as STOVL (again to save money) then we would have had F-14s sitting on the decks and Argentina would never have dared set foot on the Falklands in the first place. But yet again today we're cheaping out with STOVL carriers and hamstringing ourselves to save cash

 

[Rroff]

Technically everything they have could sink one, or two, but that's only because they don't have enough missiles to stop that many attackers. In theory one Type-45 with an infinite ammo hack could defeat the entire Iranian Air Force, that's how damn good they are.

I wonder how well they scale though - our command and control and fire control systems are amongst if not the best in the world but a problem for instance Russia has had with the S-400/500 is scaling when you have multiple installations it is actually harder than you think to effectively bring them all to bare against a saturation attack with the benefit of each additional unit dropping as you add more and more into the network.

EDIT: Though one of the problems Russia has is the lack of domestic high end semiconductor manufacturing which means they still rely heavily on analog solutions for a lot of their military hardware and the rest relies heavily on supply from places like Japan. I can't see Russia going on an offensive war unless they either significantly advance domestic production capabilities (still not much further on from when I last said they were 10 years away from it) or have a sure fire strategy to take the likes of Japan in their opening moves - but even that doesn't secure manufacturing capabilities none the less they are easy targets for an opponent to cripple or destroy and you need the experience and skills to run them and the locals probably won't be the most cooperative.

 

[Puzzled]

You can have the deadliest force in the world but unless you have the political will to use it then it's not much of a threat.

Let's say Iran boarded another tanker but this time it was being escorted, would we use force at a time when all political talk is of de-escalation? If we wont use force then what does it matter to Iran if we send more ships.

 

[xxalxx]

Because using a nuke to shoot a small boat isn't good value.

Because it’s the only way to be sure

 

[Malevolence]

Some of them are, most are old or bad. I.E our shiny new carriers are inferior to the one France has had in service for almost 20 years because we decided to cut costs and go STOVL again, even after the Falklands debacle... >.>

You do realise that, due to us "cutting costs" as you put it, our F-35Bs can actually take off from the carrier with the full-fat payload package whereas the US with it's new EMALs and F-35Cs has to gimp their payloads.

 

[StriderX]

I wonder how well they scale though - our command and control and fire control systems are amongst if not the best in the world but a problem for instance Russia has had with the S-400/500 is scaling when you have multiple installations it is actually harder than you think to effectively bring them all to bare against a saturation attack with the benefit of each additional unit dropping as you add more and more into the network.

EDIT: Though one of the problems Russia has is the lack of domestic high end semiconductor manufacturing which means they still rely heavily on analog solutions for a lot of their military hardware and the rest relies heavily on supply from places like Japan. I can't see Russia going on an offensive war unless they either significantly advance domestic production capabilities (still not much further on from when I last said they were 10 years away from it) or have a sure fire strategy to take the likes of Japan in their opening moves - but even that doesn't secure manufacturing capabilities none the less they are easy targets for an opponent to cripple or destroy and you need the experience and skills to run them and the locals probably won't be the most cooperative.

A problem being resolved by China with it's impressive theft of pretty much any significant IP in Semiconductors for the last 50 years, that won't be a limitation for long. As well Russia's nanotech research is among the best in the world and we know China basically needs Russia's food production (which when the permafrost thaws...).

Conflict is inevitable, regardless of imperialist visions, because the environment will force it upon us.

 

[Rroff]

A problem being resolved by China with it's impressive theft of pretty much any significant IP in Semiconductors for the last 50 years, that won't be a limitation for long. As well Russia's nanotech research is among the best in the world and we know China basically needs Russia's food production (which when the permafrost thaws...).

Advanced semiconductor manufacturing and development needs more than just IP theft or even being able to copy current facilities.

 

[StriderX]

Advanced semiconductor manufacturing and development needs more than just IP theft or even being able to copy current facilities.

But once you have that, the rest of is just a process of time, for sure the culture in China over it is self-defeating typically (not all Chinese research is empty, before someone gets mad), but the majority of the work is in the research, especially as things get more complex.

 

[diamount]

You going to drop a nuke everytime Argentina invades the Falklands or some terrorist is operating out of his ****** shack in Somalia? Would certainly make them think twice when Buenos Aires is leveled but its generally seen as a waste of a nuke and a bad idea all round.

A surface fleet is on the whole not that effective at combating piracy anyway.

 

[Nasher]

This.

To put it in perspective, three of them could defeat the entire Iranian Air Force, and the only reason it would require three is because two wouldn't have enough ammunition. They are amazing AA vessels.

The Type-45s also have pretty powerful jamming systems as well from what I've heard. Run out of ammo = just jam everything so nothing works

 

[Myaniad]

A surface fleet is on the whole not that effective at combating piracy anyway.

Why, have the Somalian pirates got a few hunter-killers below the surface? Surface fleet should do what the Argies did to that Chinese fishing boat stealing their cod. The patrols around the Somalian coast don't seem to be doing too badly, we haven't heard of a couple of pensioners being kidnapped and ransomed for a while.

 

[Rroff]

The Type-45s also have pretty powerful jamming systems as well from what I've heard. Run out of ammo = just jam everything so nothing works

Was interesting the comments over the drones used to disrupt airports recently - they have the jamming systems to take them out but the concern was it is completely unknown what happens if there was say a hospital 1-2 miles downrange with the capabilities of these systems they aren't very useful outside of a warzone hah.

 

[Nasher]

Why, have the Somalian pirates got a few hunter-killers below the surface? Surface fleet should do what the Argies did to that Chinese fishing boat stealing their cod. The patrols around the Somalian coast don't seem to be doing too badly, we haven't heard of a couple of pensioners being kidnapped and ransomed for a while.

Tankers passing by Somalia started hiring trigger happy security, there are videos of how that turned out for the pirates lol. I think something more official has been set up now though.