File/Plex server

Associate
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Hi all,
Currently looking into building a server for files(backup) and plex. Never used a server not sure where to start in terms of parts etc.
I know I will more than likely stream 4k going forward. I currently have 2 external drives for backup and backblaze.

Thanks!
 
Soldato
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You don't need enterprise class hardware to do anything you've suggested, you can easily repurpose desktop hardware if you do it properly (direct play media to compatible clients, suitable connectivity etc.). Do you have anything suitable you'd like to use, a budget, an idea of noise/power/space constraints?

The trap many people fall into is confusing the word 'server' with enterprise grade hardware and buying a power guzzling, hot, noisy old rack mount server that belongs in a crusher when a low end intel + iGPU would be much better suited to the job. OS wise what's your preference? Unraid or FreeNAS spring to mind, but you could use anything.
 
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Soldato
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Agree with @Avalon - If you manage your media well with multiple copies then you don't even need a terribly powerful CPU for Plex as it'll do no transcoding. When I built my Unraid box the only differences I made to a normal PC build were:
  • A Gold rated power supply to ensure maximum efficiency
  • A case with a good amount of sound insulation and quiet fans
  • Use hard drives designed to be used in a NAS - not the enterprise level ones but WD Reds, Seagate Ironwolf and the like
But the rest of the hardware is consumer grade Intel/DDR4 etc. One of the NAS operating systems (I forgot which) does benefit from ECC Ram and needs more of it depending on the amount of storage, but I forget which.
 
Soldato
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Agree with @Avalon - If you manage your media well with multiple copies then you don't even need a terribly powerful CPU for Plex as it'll do no transcoding. When I built my Unraid box the only differences I made to a normal PC build were:
  • A Gold rated power supply to ensure maximum efficiency
  • A case with a good amount of sound insulation and quiet fans
  • Use hard drives designed to be used in a NAS - not the enterprise level ones but WD Reds, Seagate Ironwolf and the like
But the rest of the hardware is consumer grade Intel/DDR4 etc. One of the NAS operating systems (I forgot which) does benefit from ECC Ram and needs more of it depending on the amount of storage, but I forget which.

You're on about ZFS under FreeNAS and it's variants - that's a whole other debate. While ECC isn't required, if the cost difference is minimal it makes sense, just be wary of people who selectively quote a developer post and instead go and read the full thing, it doesn't say what many people who seemingly haven't read it use it as evidence to support.
 
Associate
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I run a second hand server with two hex core xeons. It's loud and hot, but it's out of the way so I don't mind, and the parts were extremely cheap on eBay.

That is for a bunch of different purposes though, running VMs, encrypting data on the fly, data storage and transcoding.
 
Soldato
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For me it will only be for backup to start with, when I really think about use. Obviously with unraid if a drive(s) fail it has data loss protection is setup in that way?

Please, please take some time to read up on unraid before you go any further, little things like pre-clearing, cache and parity pools are worth a few minutes of your time, also understanding them will make life a lot easier.

In brief terms, the number of drives you add to parity dictates the number you can loose to failure before data is lost. Even if you loose more, it’s only the individual files on that failed drive that are lost. As you can mix/match drive sizes, it’s quite easy to grow your array.
 
Soldato
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Spec comes down to usage, you've not really given us any indication of the new planned usage that's tipped the balance from a simple storage device with dockers. I assume you've got a plan on dealing with expanding storage? Have you looked into ECC's actual benefits vs the cost? I've spec'd ECC on servers for three decades, in that time i've seen it actually recover from bit-flip about as many times as i've seen normal sticks fail.
 
Soldato
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The more i think of it really I believe i will go down the freenas route. Now i would like a motherboard that has ecc memory support but could cost more.
Any ideas on specs? I think also to start with I will want 16tb.
Why FreeNAS? It doesn't have much to recommend it compared to XigmaNAS which was originally NAS4free and spun off FreeNAS as it became commercialised. It's much closer to the original FreeNAS concept and has an active support forum.
 
Associate
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I run an Unraid server with a X470 motherboard and Ryzen 2400G. Got some old drives in there plus 3x WD Reds for main storage. A M2 WD Blue takes care of the cache drive element. Works great as a NAS, Plex works great in a Docker container - as do Pi-Hole and many other useful Dockers. It runs 24x7 with Shinobi in a Docker as well.

If you want even cheaper, a B450 motherboard would do the job but I wanted more 'on the motherboard' SATA ports.

The good thing about Unraid is the ease at which you can grow the array should you want to. Not sure how it would do in terms of handling loads of Plex clients at once, but streaming to one client is absolutely fine :)
 
Soldato
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I run an Unraid server with a X470 motherboard and Ryzen 2400G. Got some old drives in there plus 3x WD Reds for main storage. A M2 WD Blue takes care of the cache drive element. Works great as a NAS, Plex works great in a Docker container - as do Pi-Hole and many other useful Dockers. It runs 24x7 with Shinobi in a Docker as well.

If you want even cheaper, a B450 motherboard would do the job but I wanted more 'on the motherboard' SATA ports.

The good thing about Unraid is the ease at which you can grow the array should you want to. Not sure how it would do in terms of handling loads of Plex clients at once, but streaming to one client is absolutely fine :)

Unraid has gone through several generations since the logic ‘get as many SATA ports as possible’ applied, 8-10 years ago everyone would have agreed, now, not so much.

Now people understand indirect cost and efficiency are important (power/heat/noise), we have access to 10-12TB drives at reasonable costs per TB, running 24 bay monsters is less and less popular, except in quite niche situations. Most people don’t need 288TB RAW + NVMe cache pools, those that do realistically probably want PB’s rather that TB’s. Point being it’s better for a variety of reasons to replace small inefficient drives with larger ones, save the power/heat/noise/space etc. Also £20 buys you a decent HBA for 8 drives, if the upgrade cost between boards is significantly greater than that, it’s a waste of money in this usage scenario, also drives keep getting bigger and cheaper, so again you buy the best £/TB over time.

Then people realised that rather than buy drives, have to fit them in cases and power them, deal with failure/RMA’s etc. for less than the cost of buying one drive, you could locally mount inexpensive cloud storage and have non of the issues. This the hybrid storage set-up was born. Now if you had a reasonably quick connection, you could have fast local storage and offsite backup or shove the files that you only used once in a while and were easily replaceable in the cloud. Heck if you were paranoid, you could even encrypt them.

The next step after that was obvious, if the storage is in the cloud, why isn’t the server? It’s inexpensive, you know how to run your server to ensure direct play, and having a symmetrical gigabit connection to your storage means 100MB/s transfers, no purchase/depreciation/power/heat/noise. After that sinks in, it’s largely game over for large local as a model unless you have awful an awful local connection or a very specific need for local storage/specific hardware.

As to the Plex point, its as capable as any other docker based/bare metal solution running on the same hardware/CPU/GPU. Direct streams are not CPU limited. Most home users in the UK are barely able to get 20Mbit up, they’ll run out of uplink before anything else unless they make a really poor media/CPU choice and need to transcode or do something stupid involving H265/4K + HDR. The exception is Windows, where if the user has a PlexPass they can use HWDecode out of the box with a suitable intel iGPU or Nvidia GPU, other OS’s still class it as experimental, so you only get HWEncode unless you want to enable it, but all of that requires a PlexPass (or JellyFin).
 
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The more i think of it really I believe i will go down the freenas route. Now i would like a motherboard that has ecc memory support but could cost more.
Any ideas on specs? I think also to start with I will want 16tb.

This is what I have used for a FreeNAS build. Cost with 2nd hand parts £400 (excluding storage). I don't use Plex so not sure how capable it is for transcoding but streaming 4k remux movies to my Vero 4k+ is perfect. According to other sources it can handle at least 2x 1080p transcodes.

I get 36TB of storage space running ZFS RAIDZ2 which means the array can have 2 drives fail at any time and not lose any data.

  • Chassis: Silverstone TJ08-E
  • CPU: Xeon E3-1220 V2
  • RAM: 32GB (4x Hynix 8GB DDR 1333 ECC)
  • Mainboard: Supermicro X9SCM-F
  • HBA: Dell Perc H310 flashed to LSI 9211-8i in IT mode
  • PSU: Corsair CX550M
  • Boot: 2x Intel 320 40Gb SSD mirror
  • Storage: 9x Western Digital Enterprise 6TB RE WD6001FSYZ
 
Caporegime
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I wouldn't like to run anything other than ECC memory on unraid due to the way it uses RAM to cache the writes, if a bad stick went unnoticed for a time you could end up with quite a bit of corruption.
 
Soldato
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Before specifying ECC, consider how many real world examples of bit-flip you’ve ever seen logged on an ECC system in the wild, now consider that in a media library, bit-flip is highly unlikely to be noticeable. Now if you were storing mission critical encrypted data for example, that would be different.

In enterprise, you don’t take the risk irrespective, but for a home media box when you have backups and the worst case scenario is re-imaging your physical media, it’s not really a massive issue. Also if you’re stressing the importance of ECC, then things like a UPS and mirrored cache drive should be first along with a suitable ratio of parity:storage pool. Also having seen people get this horribly wrong, not all CPU’s support ECC, even if a CPU does, the chipset/board specifically needs to as well. Ryzen is an obvious example, the chips do, but the boards generally don’t and it’s not a given that if ECC functionality is enabled, that it will work as expected or if it does, it will continue to.
 
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