Bristol to become the UK's first city to ban diesel cars from entering parts of the city centre

[Jez]

What are they? I hope it doesnt happen personally, as i am a high mileage (at peak times, on trunk routes, etc) driver so would likely get hit really hard by it.

I dont see what else they can do, though? You cant tax electricity as it is not mark-able as with a fuel such as diesel (on road and off road being differentiated with a chemical marker).

 

[Nasher]

They will just pump road tax up massively. Or stick it on other things. Those are the cheap\easy options for the government.

 

[Six6siX]

While I understand your argument it falls down quickly when you realise none of the money from fuel duty or VED goes into maintaining the roads directly. While you do create lower overall pollution, the strength pollution you do make when you drove is far worse than someone who pays £30.

The vast majority of the road network is maintained by the local authority and paid for directly through council tax.

Fuel duty and VED just goes into the big treasury pot and gets used on general expenditure. The biggest recipients are welfare, pensions and NHS. Only motorways and a few major A roads are maintained by highways England or the devolved equivalent.

I know it doesn't get spent on roads directly. Perhaps it should have a component which is related to the usage of the infrastructure?

I assume by "strength pollution" you mean the amount of the CO2 per km according to the book figure? Which is higher, yes. But using the current system, you can emit many, many times more CO2 and pay absolutely nothing and it seems a bit strange. Which is more damaging for health and the environment?

What about a system that took into account the vehicle's emissions and mileage by making the VED-mileage rate proportional to the emissions.

 

[Amp34]

not a bad idea, but just thinking how prolific clocking cars would become.

Just like all those people now using Red diesel!

Ok in some scenarios but I live in a rural area, we have a bus the runs about twice a day to the next nearest village, so simply isn't practical. You can't walk anywhere it's too far (some 3.5miles to the nearest shop for example) plus there are no footpaths anyway, let alone cycle paths.

With no street lights and NSL roads cycling here is very dangerous.

So, I would be heavily penalised if there were such thing. I am completely reliant on a car.

You’re already taxed on usage due to duty on fuel, so if done right it wouldn’t cost you more.

Equally people that use the road more should pay more. Reduce the cost by driving a smaller/lighter, more efficient car just as people do with ICE vehicles.

Even moving to BEVs we still need to remember we should be reducing the usage of cars wherever possible. Currently fuel duty helps, so something related to mileage should continue to be used.

 

[Amp34]

Against a sea of other cars you would never be able to pick out a single wireless signal like that.

What’s being talked about with the tracking /ANPR connection is called V2x communication. It’s already starting to be rolled out. The new Golf will have it, as will the ID.3.

It’s designed for cars to communicate with each other as well as roadside objects (traffic lights for example). It’s not inconceivable that it ANPR stations could poll every passing car, and if something doesn’t match then it’s flagged.

The main issue with using it as a way of tracking for tax purposes (at least in the near to mid future) is that most cars won’t have it for quite a while. Even if it became legislation next year it would be at least a decade before most cars (on the road) have it as standard. Retrofitting tens of millions of cars would be a pain in the ****.

If they relied just on GPS it would be flakey and super easy to fool for cheap tax. Cops would have to drive around with very expensive signal testing equipment to try and catch people 1 by 1.

There will always be people that flout the system, no matter what system it is. Most people don’t however. Some people use red diesel to avoid tax, some people clone plates etc etc. Rather than focusing on the small minority that will break the rules, why not focus on the best/easiest/most convenient way to tax people that aren’t breaking the rules.

Those breaking the rules can be dealt with by the police in similar ways today.

 

[Nasher]

Anything wireless is going to be hacked in 5 minutes once it becomes mainstream. It's so easy to do, I can do it, you could basically do a man in the middle attack and have it send out whatever you like. It wouldn't look suspect on the outside.

Maybe the government will go for it, they are pretty dumb when it comes to tech (like their whole porn filter idea which was a big fail). But like many others I'd exploit the dumbness to pay minimal tax.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Anything wireless is going to be hacked in 5 minutes once it becomes mainstream. It's so easy to do, I can do it, you could basically do a man in the middle attack and have it send out whatever you like. It wouldn't look suspect on the outside.

Maybe the government will go for it, they are pretty dumb when it comes to tech (like their whole porn filter idea which was a big fail). But like many others I'd exploit the dumbness to pay minimal tax.

can you hack a pacemaker?

 

[Nasher]

can you hack a pacemaker?

Why, do you want to bump someone off?

 

[Uther]

can you hack a pacemaker?

Yes, apparently.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/are-pacemakers-defibrillators-vulnerable-to-hackers

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Yes, apparently.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/are-pacemakers-defibrillators-vulnerable-to-hackers

the question was specifically to Nasher to validate his claim. I’ve watched Homeland

 

[Amp34]

Anything wireless is going to be hacked in 5 minutes once it becomes mainstream. It's so easy to do, I can do it, you could basically do a man in the middle attack and have it send out whatever you like. It wouldn't look suspect on the outside.

Maybe the government will go for it, they are pretty dumb when it comes to tech (like their whole porn filter idea which was a big fail). But like many others I'd exploit the dumbness to pay minimal tax.

I’m sure the prison sentences will be pretty high for causing death by interfering with safety devices.

What’s the prison sentence for throwing a brick through a windscreen for example?

Again, even when it can be done (remember we’re not talking about basic WEP/WPA wifi here...) how often will it be done?

Out of interest Nasher, were you arguing against internet banking 15 years ago?

“But people will just clear out bank accounts at will! Stupid idea!”

 

[Nasher]

Hackers DO clear bank accounts out all the time...

Also companies get hacked over their wifi networks by people sitting in the carpark. Sometimes they don't even notice until copies of their products start rolling out of China.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Hackers DO clear bank accounts out all the time...

Citation needed.

Let’s face it peoples bank accounts get emptied but it’s always via phishing or social engineering and not via breaching the banks networks by ‘hacking’. For reference the first two are not hacking, they are just hustling the gullible and vulnerable.

 

[Amp34]

Hackers DO clear bank accounts out all the time...

Exactly. Yet the actions of a small minority that take advantage of the system don’t preclude the system being used.

Those that do take advantage are subject to the legal system.

Also companies get hacked over their wifi networks by people sitting in the carpark. Sometimes they don't even notice until copies of their products start rolling out of China.

So are you advocating we don’t use wifi for anything?

I presume you only own a desktop hard wired to the internet? No laptop, phone or router at your home right?

In fact, why are you even on the internet? You could be hacked any second! Only chumps do that.

Are you also an advocate or getting rid of physical money. People counterfeit after all, making it worthless!!

 

[Nasher]

Yes I use a physical network cable at home, with wifi locked down pretty well. I also use a VPN

 

[rIcK]

Problem is a lot of urban areas in the UK just aren't built to facilitate this and the cost of doing so and upheaval would be enormous. While not exclusively the case the Netherlands has far more urban areas built around block patterns with wider streets, etc. lots of the UK is higgledy piggledy cramped streets and limited options for bypasses/circulars and so on while often the high/main street through a larger town/city is a significant link road without suitable alternatives for heavier traffic even with a reduction of traffic from pushing more people to other forms of transport. While in the Netherlands they've tended to plan that better in the first place with major roads around as well as through built up areas being more common.

We certainly need to be developing more infrastructure to facilitate alternative transport away from roads though to encourage people to cycle, etc. - too much of the UK as is you are taking your life in your hands if you hop on a bike instead of taking the car.

Most of Netherlands inner cities have even narrower streets than the UK. The solution is simple, forced government guidance on any road works and new infrastructure with a minimum level of cycling provisions. The cost would be relatively small. We waste so much space on parking, white hashing and other nonsense.

But as you say, cycling is off the cards for most. Its simply too dangerous, it makes no difference to me personally I already cycle everywhere.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Sheffield's one-way system was designed by someone (a lady -although that doesn't matter) who doesn't drive, rides a road bicycle and has never driven a car...ever. ridiculous....

So, it was designed to put off car drivers from entering the city? Wrrking as intended?

 

[goldy6660]

So, it was designed to put off car drivers from entering the city? Wrrking as intended?

Fair but it's ridiculously hard when you get there and can literally see where you need to be but have to drive another 30 mins around a one way system to get there hahaha

 

[Nasher]

Bedford is a bit like that too. People used to cheat in certain places to skip it, but they put cameras up since the last time I was there

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Bedford is a bit like that too. People used to cheat in certain places to skip it, but they put cameras up since the last time I was there

i thought you could work around cameras aswell in reference to ANPR and GPS combined for road charging and now you are highlighting how they actually work in practice.
Pretty special stuff really.