Valve Index display quality?

[Sath]

Had an Oculus CV1, sold it on quite a long time ago now, and regret doing so, so considering saving up for a new set, but found that the CV1 is survived by the S and Quest, which both have their own pluses and drawbacks.

Importance placed on having "true" black contrast is subjective, but am I making a mountain out of a molehill regarding the LCD screen on the Index? Do the other pluses on it's display make up for the lack of an OLED display?


On paper the Index's controllers, finger tracking, refresh rate (144hz? yes please!), FOV and resolution all look superb, but the LCD screen seems like a colossal drawback for such a premium bit of kit.


Only thing stopping me from immediately taking the Index is the fact it uses an LCD display (and maybe the price, phew!). The Quest has an OLED display and the upcoming link should let me use my computer's graphic's card, but the lower FOV and 72hz refresh rate sounds kind of rough, and wiring up the Quest kind of defeats the point of going wireless in the first place???

Vive sounds logical, but the standard kit is starting to show it's age in the face of it's competitors, am really not a fan of the Vive controllers and I rankle at the Vive Pro's price for what's relatively minor improvements to the base model. Would LOVE to use the Rift knuckle controllers with the Vive Pro, but that's crazy expensive!



What's the lesser of the evils here? Having worse black contrast but an experience that's easy on the eyes, or more flicker & narrow FOV, but truer colours?

 

[ArmitageShanks]

I wouldn't say OLED headsets have "truer" colours, but certainly more vivid, richer colours and deep blacks than their LCD counterparts.

I have a Vive, Pimax 8K, and Vive Pro. The Pro is the one I use due to the OLED displays over a better resolution and 200 degree FOV. I got an excellent used Pro at about half the retail price on the bay.

 

[sunshinewelly]

I have a vive and am in a similar boat. After hours of reviews and forum reading it seems the index is the best device. Ie comfort audio display fov

 

[Ravenger]

Index is definitely the best headset to get right now, though if you don't already have lighthouses or knuckles controllers it's over twice as expensive as the Rift S.

For the price of an full Index system you could buy a Rift S and a Quest and still have over £100 for games, which is astonishing.

You are getting the best all-round system for that though.

If you already have a Vive then really the choice is between the Vive Pro, or the Index.

 

[aoaaron]

I find the index to definitely look very washed out.

I can’t help but feel a wireless Vive pro or even an oculus quest with the link cable will give a nicer experience for those that prioritise visuals.

the high hz is nice but I’d rather have oled over it.

the sde elimination is nice but the Vive pro resolution does enough to make it disappear for games.

it’s a really tough one. Going lcd is a bitter pill to swallow to eliminate lcd and ‘improve persistence’.

For movie watching, I’d rather use my quest anyday and it’s down to the black level.

If I’m going to put up with a crap lcd screen, might as well just get a rift s is my initial gut feeling.

a Vive pro shouldn’t be too expensive too and you have the option of going wireless with it.

 

[ArmitageShanks]

If you're coming fresh into VR or moving away from Oculus into the "native" SteamVR ecosystem, then the full Index package is what I'd consider buying.

If you have lighthouse and SteamVR controllers from the original Vive, then I'd recommend the Vive Pro (and Index controllers at some point). I'm actually very happy with mine, don't feel like I'm missing out on anything that the Index headset has over it.

Maybe I'll consider an "8K" OLED Pimax when I have a RTX3080Ti or something.

 

[Sath]

I have seen Pimax mentioned in quite a few video reviews now, though getting hold of the 8k model in the UK appears to be bit of a 'mare, as well as being even more expensive than the Index. If anything goes wrong with one, feels like I'd be up the proverbial creek.

It's a tough call where colour quality and comfort are concerned: Quest is not only affordably priced for the WHOLE package, plus I really like the Oculus controllers, and will soon be able to pretend it's a Rift again thanks to Link AND happily use the £400 64GB model without worry of space. But 72hz sounds grim in a VR experience involving any kind of high speed movement. There's probably a way to "break" the hardware/software to force it back up to the 90hz that the CV1 ran at, but sure that Oculus won't like me doing that, and I don't feel like I should have to either.

Been looking out for a used Vive Pro, no luck so far. For what it's worth, wireless adaptors are still weighing in at £300 anyway, which makes me choke pretty hard to be honest. I seriously dislike the Vive wands, so I'd end up using Valve's knuckle controllers anyway.

Some other reviews on the Index like to big up the pixel density compared to cheaper headsets, making it an arguably "better" LCD experience when combined with it's higher refresh rate. But video capture in dark environments makes me cringe.


Having sold all of the VR gubbins that I had when I got the CV1 and then passed it on, I'm effectively going in cold again.


Edit: Thought the Vive pro wireless adaptor had gotten cheaper. Was looking at the ATTACHMENT kit for it. Dern it.

 

[sunshinewelly]

https://youtu.be/Gx5DV5zFKlU

https://youtu.be/6p1e_JSol8s

 

[Sath]

https://youtu.be/Gx5DV5zFKlU

https://youtu.be/6p1e_JSol8s

Linus's thoughts align with most others on the Index, and his cold opinion of the HTC Pro is galvanised by the fact that yes, the Pro is a pointless upgrade if you already own an original HTC Vive: the improvement to resolution is great, but it's too iterative for the nearly doubled price.
The Index and Pro's resolution weigh in at the same values, and 90hz is perfectly usable. For a similar price, it boils down to whether 120+hz, improved FOV and pixel quality makes the loss of OLED worth it, and I'm starting to lean towards yes? With the number of additional peripherals it would take to effectively play Elite Dangerous for example I don't think I'd be buying into that anyway. I'd presume there's mod workarounds for Skyrim VR; because looking at captured footage vanilla night time on the Index looked 50 shades of awful compared to the Vive (though to be fair, vanilla night time on Skyrim looks bad on any screen. OOOOOOOHHHH).

The usb port in the front of the Index is very nifty, so I fully expect they'll do their own wireless attachment eventually, on top of a lot of people raving about the antimicrobial cloth comfort, though cleaning it safely can apparently be a hassle.

I have a friend who owns a Vive, but don't know anywhere or anyone who owns an Index near me, else I could just skip all the "umm aaah..." and test it with my own eyeballs. Alas, someone has to run the frontier first in my personal friend circle right?

 

[lokiss]

don't know anywhere or anyone who owns an Index near me, else I could just skip all the "umm aaah..." and test it with my own eyeballs.

Where's me? I wouldn't mind a demo session if your somewhere close.

 

[Sath]

Where's me? I wouldn't mind a demo session if your somewhere close.

Northwich area, so at least a solid couple hours drive on the M6.
I don't personally own or require a car in my current life circumstances, though have a friend who does, and has massive eyes for Beatsaber right now. Might be a bit mean for them though as they can't afford to get into VR right now

 

[lokiss]

Umm ok, Northwich is a solid run.

 

[Sath]

Umm ok, Northwich is a solid run.

Wouldn't worry about it too much to be honest; I'm getting a good idea of the Index's value, and that much travel distance is more hassle than it'd be worth at this point.

But it does give me an intriguing idea that I didn't think of before. I mean I could ask around some of the VR arcades in the Manchester area? Just over an hours train journey too.

 

[silvagti]

For the price of an full Index system you could buy a Rift S and a Quest and still have over £100 for games, which is astonishing.

That's the real kicker here. Say what you want about Facebook/Oculus (and there's plenty negative!) but in terms of the value proposition nobody else in the VR industry is close to offering what they do for the money.

Money no object the Valve Index is the best out now as far as I've heard but if it were me in your position I'd wait until the Oculus Quest link cable comes out and see what that's like in terms of latency/quality.

 

[Sath]

That's the real kicker here. Say what you want about Facebook/Oculus (and there's plenty negative!) but in terms of the value proposition nobody else in the VR industry is close to offering what they do for the money.

Can't find any word to the affect, but fingers are crossed the link cable for Quest also lets users go over the 72hz cap on the base device, and that Facebook are just withholding that potential data point in order to keep selling Oculus S kits for as long as they can. It's pretty much the only thing stopping me from slamming the cover on this book.
It becomes a no-brainer at that point: absurd value for money (on top of what that little machine can already do compared to the CV1), and option to easily go mobile if I wanted to (that doesn't cost £300 on top of everything else).

(No VR arcades in Manchester have Indexes either, only Vives. Mweh...)

 

[aoaaron]

Can't find any word to the affect, but fingers are crossed the link cable for Quest also lets users go over the 72hz cap on the base device, and that Facebook are just withholding that potential data point in order to keep selling Oculus S kits for as long as they can. It's pretty much the only thing stopping me from slamming the cover on this book.
It becomes a no-brainer at that point: absurd value for money (on top of what that little machine can already do compared to the CV1), and option to easily go mobile if I wanted to (that doesn't cost £300 on top of everything else).

(No VR arcades in Manchester have Indexes either, only Vives. Mweh...)

dont blame them as the failure rate on index's is too high to be used commercially. surely they need reliability and robustness over newer tech.

 

[Sath]

dont blame them as the failure rate on index's is too high to be used commercially. surely they need reliability and robustness over newer tech.

Oh absolutely, don't mistake my disappointment for whining: all of the people that I'd spoken to were interested in personally finding out themselves if the Index is worth the scratch too. But if the Vives deliver what the business needs then they're unlikely to jump to test the latest hardware (plus they may still be paying off those KAT walk units not including running cost). But it was worth asking because I wouldn't of known otherwise.

 

[FlukeRogi]

Just in case you want a viewpoint of someone who bought and returned their Index, he's a copy/paste from a reply posted by me elsewhere to someone asking for details as to why I returned it:

It was a combination of small issues all adding up. None of them by themselves was a deal breaker, but taken altogether...

First, the weight was a noticeable increase over the Rift (CV1). Someone on the VR365 Discord weighed theirs and Index was 51% heavier. It wasn't that it really felt heavy, but when I turned quickly, I could feel that weight giving some slight momentum to the headset. Coupled with the HMD actually getting quite warm (and I took the front plastic faceplate off, and had a fan pointing into my play area), I just felt noticeably warmer using it. Oh, and despite some nice padding on the rear of the HMD, the front facial interface padding was pathetic.

Next was the glare. I could have lived with it given the clarity of the screen, but it was another annoyance along with everything else. Given this was a $1k package, and by all reports the Rift-S doesn't suffer anywhere near as much in this regard though, it's inexcusable really.

Then there's the controllers. I genuinely disliked them. The position of the analogue stick was uncomfortable for me, and I never could get the knuckles strap adjusted where it felt right. The padding also fell just short of being long enough for me so that I could feel the edge of it where it transitioned to the adjustable band. Ironically, given that the whole "let go of the controller" was a big selling point, it felt the most comfortable to just ease it off all the way and grip the controller "normally" - which wasn't really practical as you'd then be registering a grip all of the time. Finally, I had the stick click problem. Although it did register in all directions, the directions it didn't click in required a crazy amount of force to get it to register. That's assuming the game you were trying even worked without a community generated controller profile.

I really was on the fence about returning it, but then Valve turned round with their "it's working as intended comment", at which point I sent it back.

 

[Sath]

Just in case you want a viewpoint of someone who bought and returned their Index, he's a copy/paste from a reply posted by me elsewhere to someone asking for details as to why I returned it:

It was a combination of small issues all adding up. None of them by themselves was a deal breaker, but taken altogether...

First, the weight was a noticeable increase over the Rift (CV1). Someone on the VR365 Discord weighed theirs and Index was 51% heavier. It wasn't that it really felt heavy, but when I turned quickly, I could feel that weight giving some slight momentum to the headset. Coupled with the HMD actually getting quite warm (and I took the front plastic faceplate off, and had a fan pointing into my play area), I just felt noticeably warmer using it. Oh, and despite some nice padding on the rear of the HMD, the front facial interface padding was pathetic.

Next was the glare. I could have lived with it given the clarity of the screen, but it was another annoyance along with everything else. Given this was a $1k package, and by all reports the Rift-S doesn't suffer anywhere near as much in this regard though, it's inexcusable really.

Then there's the controllers. I genuinely disliked them. The position of the analogue stick was uncomfortable for me, and I never could get the knuckles strap adjusted where it felt right. The padding also fell just short of being long enough for me so that I could feel the edge of it where it transitioned to the adjustable band. Ironically, given that the whole "let go of the controller" was a big selling point, it felt the most comfortable to just ease it off all the way and grip the controller "normally" - which wasn't really practical as you'd then be registering a grip all of the time. Finally, I had the stick click problem. Although it did register in all directions, the directions it didn't click in required a crazy amount of force to get it to register. That's assuming the game you were trying even worked without a community generated controller profile.

I really was on the fence about returning it, but then Valve turned round with their "it's working as intended comment", at which point I sent it back.

Is exactly what I'm looking for as a granular counter-point to be honest.

Weight and warmth aren't really things that concern me, but a couple reviews did mention "god rays" (presumably the glare you mentioned), which is kind of puzzling given the Rift S is a £400 set (and a complete boxed experience) but the Index is a £459 headset (with no controllers or base stations).

I have to wonder if it's more randomised quality control issues like with the 1st batch of knuckle controllers? I can easily find user posts about excessive glare, but it's rarely mentioned in video reviews, if at all. Whether that's because of their audience expectation or review copy bias is anyone's guess at this point, but it's a concerning issue all the same. Given the complexity of the lenses, I guess there is more that can go wrong at manufacturing?


My hands are on the smaller side of average, so I'd expect no issues with the strap itself. Though I do admit that I wonder about the analogue stick placement on the knuckle controller, especially when I personally found the relatively compact Oculus controllers were already lovely to use.

 

[Ravenger]

I've tried the knuckle controllers and I didn't find them that amazing compared to the touch controllers. The thumbstick is definitely in the wrong place, felt like a bit of a stretch to reach it. (Funnily enough I feel the same when using AMVR knuckle-like hand straps on the Quest touch controllers). The finger tracking isn't much more than you get on the Touch controllers either. The best feature was the pressure sensitive handle squeezing, which was very good. Overall the Touch controllers feel better ergonomically for me and are 'good enough' for the majority of in-game interactions.