Actually, we do. My cousin hunts all the time for just about everything. He tells me the biggest problem with bow hunting is people that take the shot just out of range. But even when they're in range you rarely kill cleanly. There's a lot of tracking after the shot to find the deer. Sometimes you don't find the deer.
The Shooting (Firearms) Thread
- Thread starter BUDFORCE
- Start date
Actually, we do. My cousin hunts all the time for just about everything. He tells me the biggest problem with bow hunting is people that take the shot just out of range. But even when they're in range you rarely kill cleanly. There's a lot of tracking after the shot to find the deer. Sometimes you don't find the deer.
Not sure that's a fair statement. It's not that we're less bothered as no reasonable person wishes to see an animal suffer. We just have a different set of rules than y'all do. It's all but impossible to tell people "you can't hunt with a bow"... that sort of thing just doesn't fly over here.
Went back last night fired more of the lever action .38 with a fresh target this time so I could see where we were hitting.
12 year old had a go, pretty good shooting quite tight spread near the bullseye.
My turn, 10 rounds fired. Went to inspect the target, well, I had quite a nice tight group also, unfortunately about 4 inches completely off above the target lolololol.
After speaking to my 12 year old!!!! He explained how he was lining up the iron sights.
Now normally, with iron sights (at least with what I've fired before) you line the tops up. With this rifle, it has like a "U" shaped rear sight or like a wine glass shape, and your supposed to line the front sight up with a notch at the bottom on the rear sights!
Oh well, I'll know for next time.
12 year old had a go, pretty good shooting quite tight spread near the bullseye.
My turn, 10 rounds fired. Went to inspect the target, well, I had quite a nice tight group also, unfortunately about 4 inches completely off above the target lolololol.
After speaking to my 12 year old!!!! He explained how he was lining up the iron sights.
Now normally, with iron sights (at least with what I've fired before) you line the tops up. With this rifle, it has like a "U" shaped rear sight or like a wine glass shape, and your supposed to line the front sight up with a notch at the bottom on the rear sights!
Oh well, I'll know for next time.
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 12,308
Well, looking at a couple of quotes from my last post:
Both those cases refer equally to clays, which when used to simulate bunnies, are basically rolled along the ground and you 'lead' them by just sweeping from behind them and forward. It's not a lead in the technical sense. As for other clays, ie toward, away, or crossing, it's a mixture between tracking the clay and looking for the apex where it 'pauses' in its arc. Again, less of a lead, more just instinctive shooting. It's not something you learn, so much as develop...
But it sounds like you know far more than me about shooting, so I'll just bow to your vastly superior knowledge and leave you to it.
You can tell people they're not allowed to drive until they pass a driving test, right? Why not prohibit ownership and use of weapons (whether for hunting, or indeed other purposes) until they pass competency tests in those, too? That way, it's not a ban in the British sense... just the requirement to prove that you're not a dick, an idiot or a clueless liability before they let you have your shooty-bangs and boomsticks. Right now, I'm shocked at how often instructors on YouTube advise people to "get some training", as if anyone would buy a gun for carry and not have already done a comprehensive training course......??!!
And no, that was perhaps not an entirely fair statement, although to qualify it 'most' of those I chat to do 'appear' to give less than zero ***** about the matter... Much of our conversations are around aesthetics, mechanics and CCW culture, but hunting does come up somewhat. I know some who don't care, some who don't voice it either way and some who vehemently voice otherwise.
You have discovered Buckhorn Sights, most commonly found on underlevers - I love them. Your 12 year old has schooled you correctly, I am surprised no one at the club gave you advice - you would have been shooting very high!
On the safe thing, you want it installed before the officer comes as they will want to check it before giving you the go ahead on the licence.
Ok thanks mate.
I've actually found a place a bedroom cupboard provided the safe isn't too big should fit and it's out of sight.
The Second Amendment to begin with. Driving is a privilege not a right. Owning a gun or most any weapon is a right. You don't have to agree but that's how it is here. And you can thank crazy King George for that.
Don't you think this very statement could be applied to people of any country on almost any issue? Some care, some care a lot and some just don't care.
The overwhelming majority of hunters in America do so responsibly. Some don't. For those that don't, if they're caught they can pay a steep price, including prison time in some cases.
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 12,308
A right is just an entitlement to have something, not a guarantee that you will have it.The Second Amendment to begin with. Driving is a privilege not a right. Owning a gun or most any weapon is a right. You don't have to agree but that's how it is here. And you can thank crazy King George for that.
It's also an entitled by an amendment. That amendment can be amended.
Rights are effectively just principles. Nothing more. The right to life trumps the right to own the means to take it away. The right to bear arms is usually taken away from criminals and the mentally ill, suggesting it already is more of a privilege than an actual right.
There is nothing stopping you from changing the law, if you saw fit...
My statement as writ?
No.
I don't care whether they care or not - What they have said about whether they care or not is the point I was raising.
I question this, given the reports which suggest a notable number frequently fail to kill cleanly, and the nonchalant attitudes toward this failure I have encountered, which suggests a lack of responsibility. Now it's possible that I have only ever met (in person and online) the underwhelming minority of American hunters, but I suspect this is statistically unlikely given the venues I frequented.
To deny a 'right' you have to be able to show cause. Not just a 'feeling' or some minor infraction, but real cause. Good luck changing an amendment in America.
Your argument regarding rights denied to criminals and the mentally ill is fallacious. It's a right, but one that can be denied based on actions of the individual.
Sure we could change the law, we just don't want to.
No idea what you're getting at here. You seem to be implying that if 'someone' doesn't raise serious concerns about a given issue that means they don't care. I disagree.
How the **** could you possibly know that there is a "nonchalant" attitude toward "failure to kill cleanly"? You're making this **** up as you go.
What you have is a lack of any evidence. Congrats on crapping on this thread.
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 12,308
No, you just take it away.
Rights are just a concept written down. There is nothing that ensures you will actually get what that right says you're entitled to... except the same physical enforcement which is equally capable of taking it away, if it so chooses.
Or a collective of individuals. If enough people start behaving contrary to what those in power want, I bet you every dollar you have they will make amendments and take away that right.
If they can ban haggis and Cadbury chocolate, they can ban guns.
You could even reinterpret the law - 'The right of The People' doesn't give individuals rights to keep and bear arms... just the population as a collective. Guns would then become a publicly owned asset. Heck, you could even import Jeremy Corbyn to run it, since he seems so keen on nationalisation of stuff!!
But you could. That was my point.
I'm implying nothing.
I'm stating outright, CFB, that if people don't voice their care especially when directly asked about it, it will appear to everyone else that they don't care. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
How?
Well, you ask people who hunt, see.... and when you ask those people about it and they shrug their shoulders or simply respond with, "Meh", is that some secret American codeword for, "Oh my god, I'm so torn up and broken about it, that I cannot actually get the words out to express my sorrow"... or does it just mean 'Meh'?
How the **** could you NOT see that as a nonchalant attitude??!!
Once again, I have spoken with a fair few American hunters about this, so I go by what they tell me. Sorry if the words of your fellow Americans do not match your own personal beliefs... but that is what they tell me. If you want to get arsey about it, go blame them. Don't start accusing me of making their **** up.
Lack of evidence that I've spoken to quite a few Americans over the years? OK, exactly what evidence of this will you accept in this instance?
It takes two to argue, and you decided to kick that **** off with your assertions about not telling people what to do in America...
I shoot clays (is this allowed in this thread?), here in the UK that's on a different licence for guns that have a maximum of 3 shots before reload. If you have a shotgun with more than 3 shots then you're looking at a firearms licence.
The club is very different to the NRA Bisley, where the setup of the traps doesn't really change, as each shooting day the traps are set up from scratch and so you get a very varied range of trap design each time. Overheads, unders, rabbits, really distant, pairs, loopers, tree tops, you name it. It's based in woodland with a clearing.
I've started to get a feel for the style of shooting I find interesting and a challenge. Starting without the gun mounted and without knowing the clay paths before shooting, almost a reaction rather than too much upfront planning. It's interesting because I feel a sporter such as the Berretta 692 is too slow although nicer balance than the Silver Pigeon. So I may go for a game gun (lighter by design) with multi-chokes or a lighter sporter.
Once I've sorted the job out again (redundancy) then I would be interested in having my own 12 gauge for consistency (over/under), I'd also be tempted with a cheap 410 because they're so damn hard to hit clays and force you to become better. Also the novelty of a side-by-side hammer but to be honest 1 shotgun will do..
The club is very different to the NRA Bisley, where the setup of the traps doesn't really change, as each shooting day the traps are set up from scratch and so you get a very varied range of trap design each time. Overheads, unders, rabbits, really distant, pairs, loopers, tree tops, you name it. It's based in woodland with a clearing.
I've started to get a feel for the style of shooting I find interesting and a challenge. Starting without the gun mounted and without knowing the clay paths before shooting, almost a reaction rather than too much upfront planning. It's interesting because I feel a sporter such as the Berretta 692 is too slow although nicer balance than the Silver Pigeon. So I may go for a game gun (lighter by design) with multi-chokes or a lighter sporter.
Once I've sorted the job out again (redundancy) then I would be interested in having my own 12 gauge for consistency (over/under), I'd also be tempted with a cheap 410 because they're so damn hard to hit clays and force you to become better. Also the novelty of a side-by-side hammer but to be honest 1 shotgun will do..
You sound like me, when I shoot clays I do as you do and start in the trail position and get a friend to fire a random clay without warning.
Ever considered practical shotgun - might be up your street?
Hmm - it's good that they are not shooting a person shaped target, although I think something less ground based. Sort of like FITASC without being able to see the clays or know much other than perhaps a single or double and simply following down the line.
Back again this evening, this time with a lever action .357 (as a pose to a .38) and this time I had figured the "buckhorn" sights out so much more sucessful.
Then about 75 rounds with the bolt action .22, havign a look around today seems teh enarest half decent range to me is in Oundle in Northamptonshire that has a 100m range that you can fire anything. Unless anyone knows any others in the Cambridgeshire (ish) area?
Then about 75 rounds with the bolt action .22, havign a look around today seems teh enarest half decent range to me is in Oundle in Northamptonshire that has a 100m range that you can fire anything. Unless anyone knows any others in the Cambridgeshire (ish) area?
2 years later you are moving house to better accommodate your gun collection...
you can disagree all you want but it's true, bullets are designed that way, there was a documentary about it a few years back. comparing a deliberate assassination attempt is apples and oranges.
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 12,308
They are not designed that way. It's a complete myth, an urban legend arising from 'back-think' suppositions behind its origin.
It was designed "to penetrate the issue steel helmet, body armor, and a .135" steel plate at 500 yards, while maintaining the trajectory and accuracy of M2 ball from a M1 Garand, and equaling or exceeding the 'wounding' ability of the .30 Carbine".
They do tend to yaw on impact, which can cause considerable wounds (CONARC specs required equal or greater than M1 Carbine wounding capability), but only if optimised for it and circumstances favour it. Simply firing it through a different weapon can instead cause deep penetration, but very minimal wounding by comparison. Several other variables greatly determine its effectiveness in several different measures.
The results of studies on effective wounding capabilities are highly variable, to the point where 5.56mm cannot be considered predictably effective at producing either yawing or fragmentation wounds.
You might find this interesting: https://web.archive.org/web/20040209030852/http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw.html
Went back again today, no .38 or .357 but fired a couple of .22's bolt action CZ and a semi auto ruger.
Was shooting them standing the ruger was much lighter and easier standing up but... was shotting as normal say 30 rounds in, half way through a 10 round magazine the pulled the trigger and "click". pulled the slide back and shook the gun a bit, put my finger in to try and wiggle the round out, out it came heard and I heard it drop on the table. Looked down on the table looking for a cartridge with the round still in it, couldnt see it, then noticed this like, tiny white pellet stuff all over the gun. The bloody cartirdge had seperated from the bullet and the bullet was still in the barrel!
The guy at the range was quite appreciative that I had realised and not tried to put another round through it.
Was shooting them standing the ruger was much lighter and easier standing up but... was shotting as normal say 30 rounds in, half way through a 10 round magazine the pulled the trigger and "click". pulled the slide back and shook the gun a bit, put my finger in to try and wiggle the round out, out it came heard and I heard it drop on the table. Looked down on the table looking for a cartridge with the round still in it, couldnt see it, then noticed this like, tiny white pellet stuff all over the gun. The bloody cartirdge had seperated from the bullet and the bullet was still in the barrel!
The guy at the range was quite appreciative that I had realised and not tried to put another round through it.
Ooof!
Been looking at options, although c19 has put the S Shooting on hold now I have a job again!
It’s occurred that a mate’s Barretta is too short stocked for me - I remember shooting it and I though my elbow was way too crooked up. I have long night arms being 6’3+ and 15+” stock I think would feel better.
I may have to get a proper measure rather than jump in. If I get some bonus I may put it to something but first a measure/lesson.. I suspect that will be 3-6m with all distancing..
It’s occurred that a mate’s Barretta is too short stocked for me - I remember shooting it and I though my elbow was way too crooked up. I have long night arms being 6’3+ and 15+” stock I think would feel better.
I may have to get a proper measure rather than jump in. If I get some bonus I may put it to something but first a measure/lesson.. I suspect that will be 3-6m with all distancing..