Samsung 2020 QLED range - What are they doing?

[robfosters]

Well, Samsung have unveiled their new range of QLED's for 2020 and underwhelming is an understatement. In fact, it's borderline embarrassing tbh. The new flagship 4K set, the Q95T is actually closer to the current Q85R in spec than it is the Q90R! Basically, Samsung say that this year just take 10 off the model numbers and you get the rough equivalent of the TV from the 2019 range. So, if you buy the new Q80T, you are actually getting the same level of spec as the current Q70R. No 2020 4K QLED will have have as high an amount of local dimming zones as the current Q90R. They are literally making their TV's worse and charging the same money!

It's obvious Samsung are gonna want to push 8K, as they are the only manufacturer producing them atm, but to actually hamstring your lesser products and offer no new advancement in a range that the vast majority of consumers will still be purchasing from, is utterly bizarre.

Certainly makes my £1000 Q85R look a fantastic buy as that Q95T is pretty much the same TV and will not be far off £3k at launch!

Vince isn't too impressed either! LG must be laughing their nuts off.

 

[sHo0sH]

Yeah I was confused by this - 8k is fairly pointless at the moment so they're trying to push people into it. Playing straight into the hands of LG/Sony etc.

So so dumb

 

[200sols]

They haven't improved in 3 years then. The 2018 Q9FN was on a level if not slightly better than the Q90R.

 

[malachi]

Well Samsung don't have OLED TV's anymore compare to the competition. So they need to do something to drive sales.

I'm happy with my 65" OLED TV from LG. So Samsung haven't got my sale.

 

[willhub]

Perhaps a QLED will be a better buy over OLED, 65", 2018 or 2019 QLED, under 1K?

 

[Metalface Mark]

Ive got a 65" Oled LG (c8) and a 75" Samsung Q85R if anyone wants an owners view of the sets and how they compare.

 

[willhub]

Ive got a 65" Oled LG (c8) and a 75" Samsung Q85R if anyone wants an owners view of the sets and how they compare.

Yes how's the cheaper QLED in comparison?

 

[danlightbulb]

Damn it i was hoping to pick up a discounted q70r once the new models came out. Based on this, the 2019 models are going to be more desirable.

 

[Metalface Mark]

Yes how's the cheaper QLED in comparison?

Well due to the size the QLED was dearer (£2499, vs £1899 for the C8). I find the QLED better for 4k movies and gaming, HDR is way better, but its nearly double the nits (820 vs 1500 on the Q85R).

For regular TV watching and apps, I much prefer the LG, Samsungs menus are bloated and not so easy to navigate. If anyone wants some side by side comparisons, i can run some video of the same thing on both screens. Also just for moving around and stuff, i can easily manhandle and lift up the OLED, but need 2 people for the QLED, its so heavy I dont trust my wall to wall mount it either given the walls ive got, so i somewhat not regret going for the 77" OLED for my cinema room.

 

[beachBOYken]

@2m11s

 

[robfosters]

@2m11s

Vince is comedy gold. Check this at 2m10s

 

[beachBOYken]

Vince is comedy gold. Check this at 2m10s

LoL, quality.

 

[woppy101]

Shamsung by name shamsung by nature

 

[jpaul]

LG aren't exactly evolving .

The duel led stuff from samsung could be adding to colour density https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tec...q70t-q60t-frame-qled-4k-tv-dual-led-backlight ... but haven't seen any reviews.

Moreover micro-led may kill them lg/samsung both .. strangely the video was working for me a couple of weeks back, but not now ?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-...oe-microled-tv-partner-ceo-rohinni-video.html

 

[Poneros]

You have to understand, Samsung overall sells based on marketing to a much greater degree than based on their actual hardware. This doesn't apply to just their TV division. That's why they keep expanding the range, upping the prices, and stripping it of features. Sadly marketing is always going to be more effective. People just don't have the time or interest to find out about what they're buying so they purchase at a glance, mostly from brand recognition, or based on the salesman's spiel in the shop.

LG is no better. They have perhaps the worst LCDs in the business, for years and years now, and not just the TVs, because even on their phones they had such ****** displays that you'd get recurring image retention on their phones. LCD ones. And a lot of their TVs suffered the same. It's really that bad, but you can see the general level of quality & care they put into it is consistent for their brand, i.e. mediocre overall, sometimes horrible, and sometimes great (eg OLEDs, but only since last year; some monitors; qdac on smartphones etc).

Sony is still fine overall, even when they don't innovate they at least still offer the same quality + a little extra, but they're expensive. In the end though, their internal politics just kills their divisions and it's probably going to happen with the TVs as well. Top notch engineering, but way too much corporate dysfunction which spills over and affects the products after a while.

The test for me is, when a friend or family member asks me what to buy, what do I tell them (without going into hours-long discussions)? Sony. Good/great, reliable, but pricey. I can confidently make that recommendation and know it's going to be fine and not have to add a bunch of caveats.

 

[willhub]

It's really a hard call to determine the worthiness of a TV upgrade. I feel black levels may not be as much of an issue as it's perceived to be, if you're watching something and it's got a large degree of black I think your own mind may filter out any discrepancies and you'll perceive it mostly as actual black unless you're looking for it and are a perfectionist.

 

[chaparral]

It's really a hard call to determine the worthiness of a TV upgrade. I feel black levels may not be as much of an issue as it's perceived to be, if you're watching something and it's got a large degree of black I think your own mind may filter out any discrepancies and you'll perceive it mostly as actual black unless you're looking for it and are a perfectionist.

Black levels is a really huge thing for me
I hate the blacks being more a like dark grey on my kuro plasma's and my IPS monitors

Which is even far worst now after having an OLED in the house

 

[Poneros]

It's really a hard call to determine the worthiness of a TV upgrade. I feel black levels may not be as much of an issue as it's perceived to be, if you're watching something and it's got a large degree of black I think your own mind may filter out any discrepancies and you'll perceive it mostly as actual black unless you're looking for it and are a perfectionist.

They're really not. There's so many factors going into it that people ignore just because the on-paper specs say something, it's crazy. It's ambient light, it's the paint your walls have, it's what you focus on when looking at the TV, and on and on.

As expected, OLEDs have a much higher ACR in the low illuminance region (dark room) but drop sharply as ambient light gets brighter. At 63 lux, OLEDs have the same ACR as LCDs. Beyond 63 lux, LCDs take over. In many countries, 60 lux is the typical lighting condition in a family living room. This implies that LCDs have a higher ACR when the ambient light is brighter than 60 lux, such as in office lighting (320–500 lux) and a living room with the window shades or curtain open. Please note that, in our simulation, we used the real peak brightness of LCDs (1200 nits) and OLEDs (600 nits). In most cases, the displayed contents could vary from black to white. If we consider a typical 50% average picture level (i.e., 600 nits for LCDs vs. 300 nits for OLEDs), then the crossover point drops to 31 lux (not shown here), and LCDs are even more favorable.

https://www.nature.com/articles/lsa2017168

Besides the physical differences, another big thing people don't consider is how poor the source itself is. Meaning, it doesn't matter how black your TV can get when the content you're watching is poorly mastered. For games in particular you'll find, if you have an oled, that blacks levels are raised considerably and you aren't going to see an actual deep black. In fact, if you also calibrate your display you'll see how poor some of the reference material is, where it's not properly mastered for either SDR or HDR. Not especially surprising, if you see how these games are made and on what hardware, but it's something to consider. Audio people went through the same struggles, where they find out after getting new equipment and properly calibrating it that their favourite records didn't sound better but rather worse, due to how they were mastered (and whom for).
Remember the down-grade struggles, when PC ppl complain consoles keep games back due to their limited power? Kinda same here. The content wants to reach the most people, and most people have crap setups, so guess how that consideration plays into it.

 

[jpaul]

https://www.nature.com/articles/lsa2017168

that's interesting - objective data on luminence levels where oled/lcd ambiant contrast ratio cross-over, even with lcd's limited contrast ratio, w/o local dimming.

so living room viewing area has a 806lumen 4kelvin uplighter bouncing off about ~4x4m ceiling area 800/16=50 lux, so best case could be delivering light at the level where lcd/oled makes no difference. .. need to dig out a light meter.

 

[mmj_uk]

To be honest I'd be surprised if Samsung sold all that many Q90R's given the price and comparatively poor value compared to OLED, the type of people who forked out for the Q90R will likely be the same ones rushing to invest in 8K as soon as it is available.