Syria war: 22 Turkish troops killed in airstrike

[dowie]

If they break through attacking the police & solders do you believe will stand take their weapons? No. They will be massacred.
Today the whole 4th Army corps in Evros has live ammunition exercises across the whole border. Has warned everyone to avoid the zones, especially the forest at Kastanies otherwise might get shot, or blown up by artillery shells falling next to the border inside the Greek territory.

Same to all the islands, as ASDEN announced all divisions on all islands are out for live ammunition training today and possibly tomorrow. So bullets flying due to exercises, better not come close to the islands. Someone angry might take aim....

If you're having to shoot live ammunition at unarmed people then something has gone very wrong. not saying that there are no circumstances under which you might - individual or small number of troops being surrounded/cut off by some angry mob etc..

But the shooting of a single migrant the other day - sounds highly unlikely it was really justified and more like someone lost control of a situation in which non-lethal solutions should have been used.

 

[Panos]

If you're having to shoot live ammunition at unarmed people then something has gone very wrong. not saying that there are no circumstances under which you might - individual or small number of troops being surrounded/cut off by some angry mob etc..

But the shooting of a single migrant the other day - sounds highly unlikely it was really justified and more like someone lost control of a situation in which non-lethal solutions should have been used.

But Greece didn't shoot any migrant. Shoot at the sea not on them. If the coastal guard had shot on the migrants on the boat, it would have penetrated their bodies and sink there and then.

And half the video is omitted also by the Turk who wrote the article for the Indy, copying straight from the Turkish newspaper supporting Erdogan.
Don't you think is peculiar that of all the west media, only the Indy wrote that article completely ignoring the borders at Evros?

Why didn't wrote an article also for the BBC journalist arrested by Turkey in the Evros area alongside several journalists from across the planet?

 

[dowie]

But Greece didn't shoot any migrant. Shoot at the sea not on them. If the coastal guard had shot on the migrants on the boat, it would have penetrated their bodies and sink there and then.

I didn't say anything about boats - I was referring to this news story - though with further updates it isn't too clear what the details are tbh... was it a rubber bullet/batton round? Greece claims the video is fake news Turkey claims otherwise. I don't know either way... I've got a hunch about which side you'll believe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...syrian-man-shot-asylum-seekers-surge-towards/

The Syrian man reportedly died on the Turkish side of the border, although there was confusion over the claim.

A BBC World Service journalist in the area reported that the refugee was “shot in the throat” by Greek border guards.

Reuters also reported that the Syrian died from injuries after Greek security forces intervened, quoting Turkish security sources.

A witness told Reuters the incident happened about 40 yards from the Ipsala border gate on the frontier between the two countries.

But the claim was denied by Athens. A Greek government spokesman said a video circulating on social media showing a young man lying apparently unconscious, with wounds to his head and face, was "fake news".

"We call upon everyone to use caution when reporting news that furthers Turkish propaganda," spokesman Stelios Petsas said on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1234422818198167553

In the other footage there is certainly footage of a coastguard boat and an unmarked rib with guys in black getting very close to a migrant dinghy, at one point one of the guys in black fires a pistol in the air.

 

[Panos]

I didn't say anything about boats - I was referring to this news story - though with further updates it isn't too clear what the details are tbh... was it a rubber bullet/batton round? Greece claims the video is fake news Turkey claims otherwise. I don't know either way... I've got a hunch about which side you'll believe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...syrian-man-shot-asylum-seekers-surge-towards/

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1234422818198167553

In the other footage there is certainly footage of a coastguard boat and an unmarked rib with guys in black getting very close to a migrant dinghy, at one point one of the guys in black fires a pistol in the air.

Greek police doesn't use and never used plastic bullets even in worst situations where Greek policemen lives were at stake ending at the hospital.
Tear gas on the other hand, plenty of it and liberally used to the point you choke. This could have been true if when the tear gas was fired and the guy was hit by the canister. But the trajectory & low speed doesn't do that much damage.

Sorry but no propaganda will open the borders. Even if live ammunition is used, Greece has the right to defend it's borders like Britain would have done in similar situation. (and has done numerous times in the past).
Any one who disagrees should ask his MP/PM to send some airplanes take the "refugees" from there and put them in their own country. They might listen to you, but doubt you want ISIS combatants in Britain do you?

And thats the reason even Guy now asking for the borders to be defended. Why the change of rhetoric? Because everyone and his dog knows these "refugees" are just the ISIS combatants after losing their caliphate.

So you want chaos in Greece? You forget Greece isn't Syria. Here are Balkans also.

 

[Panos]

OK few updates on the official thread, because Erdogan propaganda at the Greek borders have drawn the attention from whats happening in Syria.

After Turkey attacked and pushed the SAA forces early in the weekend having downed 3 Syrian airplanes over the last 4 days with Turkish planes operating from inside Turkey.

Since Sunday night SAA is on the offensive with Russian air support which is mass bombing indiscriminately everything including the known Turkish artillery positions in N Syria especially in Kaminas & Taftanaz while SAA captured Saraqib which controls the M4-M5 roads corridor (and since this morning capturing the surrounding villages). Also late last night attacked to capture Taftanaz, having captured Al-Amqiyah & Fuayfil south of Idlib, while early hours this morning, Russian plane downed Turkish drones trying to attack SAA positions.

There are also reports that SAA is now using electronic warfare (never reported before doing so) jamming all communications even miles inside Turkish borders.
Probably the new Made in Russia gifts delivered last week.

 

[RxR]

Why are you even saying this? Nobody expects a place like Australia to have not have a controlled immigration system. Just seems like you wanted a reason to 'sovereign'.

It's a bit different for places with land borders and no large tracts of ocean.

As you would be aware, Panos was, in replying to Evangelion, asking along the lines of 'so would Australia...?' in relation to border incursions / taking refugees seeking to enter by sea.

It is perfectly apt and relevant to state the Australian official policy in response.

 

[Panos]

Why are you even saying this? Nobody expects a place like Australia to have not have a controlled immigration system. Just seems like you wanted a reason to 'sovereign'.

It's a bit different for places with land borders and no large tracts of ocean.

Greece has 16,000 kilometers of coastline and 6000 islands (if you count all of them), but because is not called Australia shouldn't use the same methods as Australia to control seaborne immigration?

 

[Sankari]

Ahh the Indepedent again.

The video is right there, you can't deny the evidence.

Evangelion when Australia literaly makes them food for sharks, do you care actually?

Australia does not 'literally make them food for sharks', grow up.

Or Australia has the right to protect it's borders but Greece cannot?

Every country has the right to protect its borders. But attempting to kill defenceless asylum seekers does not qualify as 'protecting borders.'

Also do you want them?
https://www.tanea.gr/2020/03/02/gre...n-ta-paidia-pano-apo-foties-gia-na-dakrysoun/

The fact that some of asylum seekers are not genuine does not give Greece the right to attack defenceless asylum seekers on a whim. It is legal to seek asylum.

Did also at any point in this article says that this boat was sank also?

Of course not, but the Greeks tried to make sure that it did.

Australian policy is we will decide who comes to our country.

The policy of every country is that they decide who comes to their country. There's not a single country on Earth that asks the rest of the world else to make the decision for them.

 

[Panos]

Of course not, but the Greeks tried to make sure that it did.

No, Greeks made sure to push it back to Turkey and land where it came from in Turkey, which it did. (there isn't much land between the borders there)
If Greece wanted to sink the boat would have done so and let them drown, but Greece isn't Australia. Used the same methods Australia is using for decades now, yet you omitted the articles about Australia doing so on my post. How convenient.

And stop virtue signaling from a country that has a horrible record of human rights abuse to the point of some could call it genocide. Or you forgot the Aborigines? And those were natives to Australia, the others here are not.

 

[Hagar]

The video is right there, you can't deny the evidence.
Australia does not 'literally make them food for sharks', grow up.
Every country has the right to protect its borders. But attempting to kill defenceless asylum seekers does not qualify as 'protecting borders.'
The fact that some of asylum seekers are not genuine does not give Greece the right to attack defenceless asylum seekers on a whim. It is legal to seek asylum.
Of course not, but the Greeks tried to make sure that it did.
The policy of every country is that they decide who comes to their country. There's not a single country on Earth that asks the rest of the world else to make the decision for them.

I thought that they had sought asylum?

In Turkey.

 

[robfosters]

Lol, Russia drew Turkey in the nations league.

That could be interesting to say the keast.

 

[Roar87]

Turkey is committing asymmetric warfare against Greece and the EU by weaponising migrants to put social pressure on them, they should be kicked out of NATO, their President is a complete joke. I've been to Turkey and met some nice people (as well as Greece), but they're going down the wrong path here.

 

[Panos]

Turkey is committing asymmetric warfare against Greece and the EU by weaponising migrants to put social pressure on them, they should be kicked out of NATO, their President is a complete joke. I've been to Turkey and met some nice people (as well as Greece), but they're going down the wrong path here.

The whole EU goes down the pan. Austria is the only EU country openly and fully supports the Greek position today. The rest, especially the leaders of the EU (Von Der Leyen among them) visited Evros today with the Greek PM were mumbling. Poland screams that no immigrant (outside EU) would be allowed in the country. While Slovenia & Hungary are trying to block the Greek call for FM meeting this week to discuss the issue, even having put a motion to the EUP to stop the meeting.

France, unofficially, still continues the drils with the Greek Airforce with it's aircraft carrier while the only other voices of support come from Salvini & Le Pen.

Ofc we have Dominic Raab also
https://twitter.com/DominicRaab?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author


Turkey stands with al-Qaeda & ISIS. If the UK stands with Turkey, then the UK also, stands with al-Qaeda & ISIS.

 

[Minusorange]

Seems forgot how many times Britain & Greece fought against both Turkey & Germany together

Conveniently forgets the Kurds as well, I guess they became enemies when they started dealing with Assad after the US hung them out to dry and Turkey decided to invade under the pretence of a buffer zone where reality is actually ethnic cleansing of Kurds

Pretty sickening to see him choosing to buddy up to Turkey instead of staying purely neutral

 

[Panos]

Conveniently forgets the Kurds as well, I guess they became enemies when they started dealing with Assad after the US hung them out to dry and Turkey decided to invade under the pretence of a buffer zone where reality is actually ethnic cleansing of Kurds

Pretty sickening to see him choosing to buddy up to Turkey instead of staying purely neutral

Germany is an interesting country to for observation today. Even the CDU-SPD coalition is fracturing while every other single party attacks openly Merkel for supporting Turkey and abandoning Greece. (AfD especially uses pretty hard stance)

All the articles as Deutche Welle
https://www.dw.com/el/θεματα/s-10507

 

[FoxEye]

The video is right there, you can't deny the evidence.



Australia does not 'literally make them food for sharks', grow up.



Every country has the right to protect its borders. But attempting to kill defenceless asylum seekers does not qualify as 'protecting borders.'



The fact that some of asylum seekers are not genuine does not give Greece the right to attack defenceless asylum seekers on a whim. It is legal to seek asylum.



Of course not, but the Greeks tried to make sure that it did.



The policy of every country is that they decide who comes to their country. There's not a single country on Earth that asks the rest of the world else to make the decision for them.

This post seems awfully contradictory, and coming from an Ozzie to boot... a country that is happy to stick people in off-shore detention camps where conditions are allegedly Guantanamo bay style...

Are these migrants seeking asylum from persecution in Turkey, then?

Does that give them the right to storm Greece's borders?

Why don't they have the right to get on boats in Turkey and turn up in Oz, then? You going to welcome then all as "asylum seekers from Turkey" now?

 

[ntg]

The fact that some of asylum seekers are not genuine does not give Greece the right to attack defenceless asylum seekers on a whim. It is legal to seek asylum.

Asylum seekers are only entitled to ask for asylum at the first country they land on. They don't get to pick and choose. In this case, they could only be eligible for asylum in Turkey.

As far as we know, no one is persecuting them in Turkey - if anything, their cultures are more similar to Turkey's than Greece's. Furthermore, Greece has embassies within Turkey, so they should go there if they want to legitimately request asylum to begin with.

They cannot be considered, therefore, as defenseless asylum seekers but as people who try to illegally cross a country's borders. The country is justified to use force to stop them.

I think it's beyond obvious that the Turkish government is using masses of illegal immigrants in an attempt to destabilize it's neighbor and blackmail EU into paying large sums of money. Before anyone thinks that the destabilization claim is ridiculous, i'd point out that this practice by Turkey has been going on for several years now, and the total number of immigrants pushed this way tallies 100s of thousands, the majority of whom are trapped in Greece because the rest of the European countries upstream long ago now done what Greece is trying to do, closed their borders at them.

 

[Rofflay]

Turkey is committing asymmetric warfare against Greece and the EU by weaponising migrants to put social pressure on them, they should be kicked out of NATO, their President is a complete joke. I've been to Turkey and met some nice people (as well as Greece), but they're going down the wrong path here.

Well Erdogan did say he would use Democracy as a bus right? Maybe he meant using the home of democracy as a bus into the EU? Sure there are nice Turks but there are a lot of black turks as well who will all agree in our weakness.


This is why we needed to get out of any European superbloc as it meant the UK shares a border with these Islamic nutjobs. These are the nations remainers would have you share a border with they are Turks ffs the biggest threat to the EU and always were. Look at thier strong demographics they are the most populated of all the regional powers. Only Germany and Russia come close but Turkey could leave them all in the dust with 80m plus migrants. Now ask yourself if these powers are dumb enough to let you exercise regional power like the way they can mobilize 6m German Turks what would you do? I would do the same thing Erdogan does as the EU is ripe for the taking.


Sure not in a military sense, But in a demographic sense the changes are already well underway. Indeed the same effect exists in the EU that does in the UK where Islamic migration means there are more Muslims in the UK than Northern Irish people. Or how there are more Muslims especially Turks than say Irish or Danes? Look up the numbers Islamic migration has had the effect where the Irish at 5m are outnumbered in Europe by a non European group of Turks at 6m.

 

[wildman]

Lol, Russia drew Turkey in the nations league.

That could be interesting to say the keast.

My money is on the Russian ultras carving the Turks a new one.

 

[robfosters]

Von der Leyen is taking a tough stance on this too. Using rhetoric that almost suggests this is an invasion.