Cables and Snake Oil

Soldato
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Related to this thread.

I'm a software developer, and I work with AI this means that my workstation/office computer will sometimes work at very high loads for long periods of time

I use to have my computer/triple monitors/office amp/subwoofer on the same power strip (a single tacima mains filter)

Now when the computer was working at load the audio quality would drop.

To solve I have put the office amp/subwoofer on it's own power strip, so I now have 2 tacima mains filters each coming directly from the wall.

When my computer is running at high loads, I no longer have the reduction in sound quality.

So for anyone with a high powered computer, my advice is not to share your audio equipment on the same power strip as the computer.
 
Man of Honour
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Dunno what that is you've got, but i imagine tube amps likely change a bit through heat and wear. Never had a tube amp sadly, but do like the ones i've heard.

Not tube - it is a semiconductor IC. I have very mixed feelings when it comes to "burn-in" in many cases it shouldn't be a thing and there definitely isn't some kind of automatic "burn-in" improvement with electronics in general but there are some electronics items that do seem to change (in the case of tubes probably down to heat, etc.) though whether any difference from "burn-in" is an improvement is another matter.
 
Soldato
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I've yet to see any truly impartial test approaching even a decent sample size that has proven any of these products costing £1,000s have any effect TBH.
 
Soldato
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Related to this thread.

I'm a software developer, and I work with AI this means that my workstation/office computer will sometimes work at very high loads for long periods of time

I use to have my computer/triple monitors/office amp/subwoofer on the same power strip (a single tacima mains filter)

Now when the computer was working at load the audio quality would drop.

To solve I have put the office amp/subwoofer on it's own power strip, so I now have 2 tacima mains filters each coming directly from the wall.

When my computer is running at high loads, I no longer have the reduction in sound quality.

So for anyone with a high powered computer, my advice is not to share your audio equipment on the same power strip as the computer.

This is a good point RE connecting to different mains outlets.
I used to have a NAD C370 amplifier paired with B&W 603 speakers. The NAD amp was connected to a 4 way adapter which also had a lamp on. If I cranked the volume, the lamp would sometimes dim :D
Low and behold when I connected it to its own mains output, no more lamp dim! ...I actually thought it was quite funny I could sort of control the lamp intensity with the volume control on the amp
 
Soldato
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This is a good point RE connecting to different mains outlets.
I used to have a NAD C370 amplifier paired with B&W 603 speakers. The NAD amp was connected to a 4 way adapter which also had a lamp on. If I cranked the volume, the lamp would sometimes dim :D
Low and behold when I connected it to its own mains output, no more lamp dim! ...I actually thought it was quite funny I could sort of control the lamp intensity with the volume control on the amp
insufficient wiring on the adaptor. The only reason the lamp would dim is if voltage is dropping and a single c370 wouldnt do that on it's own.
 
Man of Honour
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Maybe as some people get older as we all know human ears get weaker so maybe, just maybe, they need to buy higher end equipment to counter this ear-ageing process :p

My experience/opinion is a higher quality cable will last longer because it has better internal wiring and better constructed terminations each end. But you don't have to buy a designer cable to benefit, you can still pay very little and get a quality cable be it power or whatever else.
 
Soldato
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Regarding interconnects and speaker cables, they all make a difference.

For example I have some Maplins RCA cables, and they sound different than say some generic RCA cables. Also different lengths of the same cable will change the sound.

I'll give you a tip! If you have a system thats dull (not very bright), if you use two 75 Ohm video RCA cables (instead of regular 50 Ohm stereo cable), it will make the top end sound more bright!

Speaker cables can make a difference also, for example if you use thin copper cable, then change to good thick copper cable you lower the cable impedance. I'm running some DCSK from Amazon it's great cable for the money.

If you have a selection of cables, and i'm referring more to source cables, you can actually tune a system by changing the cables.
 
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Associate
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I used to run silver speaker cables with my Cyrus/Neat Iotas and the top end was always to bright for me. I changed to copper cables and the high end did reduce the brightness or the “shhhs” on treble. Didn’t spend a fortune- QED original I think it is around £3/m and to my ears made a big difference. I also changed my interconnects from Ecosse to Cyrus ones and I can hear the difference
 
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Soldato
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I used to run silver speaker cables with my Cyrus/Neat Iotas and the top end was always to bright for me. I changed to copper cables and the high end did reduce the brightness or the “shhhs” on treble. Didn’t spend a fortune- QED original I think it is around £3/m and to my ears made a big difference. I also changed my interconnects from Ecosse to Cyrus ones and I can hear the difference

Regarding your silver speaker cables. If you had a front end that was a little dull, then you would have probably wanted the silver cables to help brighten things up. Again I agree totally you don't have to spend a fortune to find these differences in cables.
 
Associate
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I had the silver cables from new, purchased with the system but never liked the sound till I changed to the copper- now though I rarely use the speakers for music listening as I got a set of Grado SR325e via a headphone amp into the Cyrus and they sound glorious
 
Soldato
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There's no snake oil, cables do make a difference. But that depends on how thick they are, how long they are, what they are constructed from and what kind of signal you are sending through them. That's where it becomes a big ol' drum of snake oil.
 
Soldato
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Headphone and speaker cables, yes I can accept that they make a difference and to a lesser extent interconnects but I draw the line at power and USB cables, those are firmly in snake oil territory. As long as they are competently manufactured and use appropriate materials then I fail to see how more expensive "upgrades" can make any audible difference.
 
Soldato
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And there's a very definite law of diminishing returns if not a complete cap on effectiveness.

How many true peer reviewed studies into it are there?

It's a genuine question, because I would be shocked if there were any and there wasn't more being made of it beyond the niche companies making a fortune through marketing to people who judge worth through wallet size.
 
Caporegime
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And there's a very definite law of diminishing returns if not a complete cap on effectiveness.

It’s the latter in most cases AFAIK... this stuff gets muddled by golden ears types spouting BS based on theoretical difference that can’t be perceived or just plain BS. The diminishing returns idea is what they’d love to be the truth... that yes it’s a minor difference but they’re so sophisticated etc.. they can spot it ergo must by into lots of extra woo...

In reality it’s more like you could perhaps notice some really thin, low quality cables but realistically no one is going to tell a well made “high end” cable vs some decent but ordinary thick copper cable.

As for the special power leads... just LOL.
 
Soldato
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Do they show different signals when plugged into an oscilloscope or similar?
Oh wait no because that would prove there is no difference

Depending on the amp and speaker combination, yes. they do.

Difficult Loads
While it is true that reasonable quality twin cables (figure eight or zip cord) are adequate for nominal 8 ohm loads over short distances, there are a number of popular loudspeakers that are anything but nominal at high frequencies.

Two that a reader advised me about are the AR11 and the Quad ESL (old model). Both of these drop below 2 ohms in the treble frequencies. The AR bottoming out at 5kHz and the Quad at 18Khz (although anything from 15kHz to 18kHz is common). The dips are fairly sharp and so the load impedance is highly capacitive on the way down and inductive on the way up. The frequencies are high enough to not worry good amplifiers but what about the response at these dip frequencies?

Twin wire cables all have significant inductance which increases in proportion to length. With 10 amp rated twin flex over only 5 metres the response was down by 2.5 dB into one Quad ESL at 18kHz, and 3.5 dB into the other speaker which had 8 metres. This was audible and unacceptable.

The only way to reduce cable linear inductance is to make the two wires talk to each other. Running in close parallel is a start, tight twisting is better but only by using multiple wires for each and interweaving can you really get the inductance down. Several cable makers have done this and sell them as low impedance cables, which is exactly what they are. There are several different cables that use this method, and twin coaxial cable is also used to achieve a similar result.

One construction uses two groups of 72 strands of enamelled wire plaited around a solid plastic core. Using these cables with difficult loads, the droop at either 5 or 18 kHz disappeared and the sound was distinctly better. There would be virtually no other way to solve the problem short of mono amplifiers sited next to each loudspeaker.

One (potentially major) drawback occurs if you own certain amplifiers that are unstable with capacitive loads. Typical multiple twisted pair cable has about 9nF per metre of capacitance with little resistance or inductance, which causes many amplifiers to go into parasitic oscillation. The fix is simple, wind twelve turns of wire around a pen and put it in series with the beginning of the cable. This tiny coil has far less inductance than even one metre of twin flex. The other alternative is to connect a 10 ohm resistor and 100nF capacitor in series, and connect this Zobel network at the speaker end of the cable. Wiring should be kept very short.

This possible issue with speaker cables is one of very few that makes some sense from a technical perspective. There is sufficient evidence from my own measurements and those of many writers that there are indeed some detectable (and measurable) differences. With this in mind, and wanting to provide all the information I can, I have included this information - and this is the one area where properly sized and well made cables really does make a difference. If you own speakers that present a highly capacitive load, or have deep 'notches' in the impedance curve, I would take this information seriously.

Rod Elliot : https://sound-au.com/cables-p2.htm#spkr-leads
 
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