Power of attorney - when parents get ill

[UTT]

Hi everyone.

Looking for advice on the above please.

Me and my brother grew up in single parent family with mum. She is about 70 and has just had a major stroke. We cant see her in hospital and they are pushing to get her to a nursing home.

The social worker has asked if we looking into power of attorney as mum is pretty incoherent.

I've seen the govt forms online to apply but it looks like it can take up to 6 months to get done.

Any advice would be great, thanks

 

[EMarkM]

We did ours through our local/family solicitor that has done everything for us for years. It took weeks rather than months, but there are quite a few fairly complicated forms to fill in. The cost wasn't quite as much as we were expecting it to be.

There are two types of Lasting Power of Attorney, assuming you're in the UK - there's the "financial" one and the "health" one.

Essentially, the first one allows you to make financial decisions for the person if they're incapacitated, including things like paying bills for them and moving money between their accounts. The second one allows you to make your presence felt in health and welfare decisions that medical professionals wish to discuss.

Sorry that's probably not a lot of new information, but someone else will no doubt be along shortly. Good luck!

 

[swillsy]

Hi UTT - really sorry about your mum and I hope she recovers soon, it can be very slow!

I did this recently via a solicitor and it only took about 2 months, maybe look online for local solicitors that could help?

 

[eviled]

The second one allows you to make your presence felt in health and welfare decisions that medical professionals wish to discuss.

Correct. Which as family/next of kin you will be anyway, only bother with the financial one

 

[Maccy]

Not a pleasant situation to be in, but my parents used solicitors to set this all up and was much quicker as others have mentioned above.

 

[UTT]

Thanks everyone.

Think I may be looking at applying to become a deputy as mums not showing enough mental capacity to agree to anything?

It's an absolute nightmare to be honest. On the plus side she's been tested for covid and is clear at the mo.

 

[ahar]

Solicitor sorted one for my Dad, as with the others it took weeks not months. Good solicitor should be able to sort for you, handle the paperwork and advise on the best course depending on what you want to achieve

 

[peige]

Sorry to hear about your mum.

My mum did her own, filled in the forms and printed it out and we all had to sign / witness etc. I have medical/money poa with another for her. Its not that hard to do if your that way inclined and I think it too not too far short of 2 months by the time it had come back as in place. If I recall its about £80 to do yourself and i'd recommend putting it in place well before you need it if you can and i'll probably do the same when i'm into my 60's

I think you could do it for her but the key is whether she is coherent enough to be considered sound of mind in authorising it, you will struggle to get it done at all if they don't believe this.

 

[booyaka]

Unfortunately the difficulty is the fact that your mum is now unwell and past the point where she can make her own decisions.

Setting up POA is much simpler and easier before any illness/mental issues occur (hindsight is a wonderful thing) - If all individuals are well and of sound mind, you can get POA set up cheap and quickly.

You will need to speak to a solicitor/lawyer as there is way more involved now since your mum is unlikely/unable to sign anything/understand anything.

Once the person has lost their mental capacity, it's no longer possible to make a power of attorney.

It is possible to apply to the Court of Protection for a decision to be made on a particular matter. However, if there is a continuing need to make decisions on the person's behalf, you can ask the Court of Protection to appoint you as a deputy. A deputy was previously known as a receiver.

You will have to be able to show the Office of the Public Guardian that you're acting in the best interests of the person who has lost their mental capacity.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/f...-else/#when_does_someone_lack_mental_capacity

Sorry to hear about your mum - and unfortunately this will take some time and expense to arrange - Good luck

 

[Vanilla]

Sorry to hear this.

To bring up a side point be careful if she goes into a home as they can and will 'take' her house for payment if she has one.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/informatio...me/do-i-have-to-sell-my-home-to-pay-for-care/

This is why many people gift a portion of their house or create a trust. Not just for inheritance purposes but just in case a situation, such as has happened with you mum, occurs and they come looking for payment and they can't touch the house.

 

[bris]

Sorry to hear this.

To bring up a side point be careful if she goes into a home as they can and will 'take' her house for payment if she has one.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/informatio...me/do-i-have-to-sell-my-home-to-pay-for-care/

This is why many people gift a portion of their house or create a trust. Not just for inheritance purposes but just in case a situation, such as has happened with you mum, occurs and they come looking for payment and they can't touch the house.

You need to do that long before you become ill, like years before as it's called "deprivation of assets" if you don't.

You can't just give your assets away because you need to go into care, they can and will get it reversed.

 

[Vanilla]

You need to do that long before you become ill, like years before as it's called "deprivation of assets" if you don't.

You can't just give your assets away because you need to go into care, they can and will get it reversed.

I know, i'm just warning him that this is a thing and not many people realise.

 

[Pipe & Slippers]

If your mum has capacity, you can fill out the forms yourself. I got POA for my folks and they came back in about 3 weeks. The forms were not difficult to complete, you just have to be methodical

If she doesn’t have mental capacity, then seeing a solicitor would be a good place to start. It’s not expensive, but it’s not cheap either, but you may not have a choice

My dad had a stroke and didn’t have capacity for about 6 months. When he’d recovered sufficiently, that’s when I got them set up. Unfortunately, sounds like you may not be able to wait

Good luck

 

[Pipe & Slippers]

Correct. Which as family/next of kin you will be anyway, only bother with the financial one

Agree with this

 

[Pudney]

Correct. Which as family/next of kin you will be anyway, only bother with the financial one

Agree with this

This is incorrect. LPA for Health and Welfare gives the legal responsibility to make decisions to the attorney. As next of kin you may be consulted, but the responsibility will become the doctors/caregivers to decide.

See as an example:

https://www.churchers.co.uk/newsblog/churchers-news/myths-of-next-of-kin/

Myth 3: If A Loved One Is Unconscious Or Loses Mental Capacity, I Have The Right To Make Decisions And Manage Their Affairs As I Am Their Next Of Kin.
False. Being someone's next of kin has no legal rights or special responsibilities. The title is primarily used for emergency services to know who to keep informed about an individual’s condition and treatment. To ensure that you can make decisions and manage your loved one’s affairs, you must be appointed as their attorney under a Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA). This will give you legal rights to make decisions on behalf of your loved one, whether related to their financial affairs or health and welfare.

 

[UTT]

Thanks everyone.

Spoken to solicitor today and they are quoting £950.00 plus vat for the work which, normally, would take 6 to 9 months to complete.

Managed to obtain the social workers mental capacity assessment today aswell.

Just going to be a slow slog to get sorted.

On the plus side, as hospitals are as keen as mustard to get patients out she'll be going to a local care home tomorrow, provided she passes the covid test with results in the morning.

Once in the care home she's been allocated a ground floor room so there could be the possibility of doing a window visit in the near future.

The bloody covid rubbish is the thing that has made this so frustrating.

Now having to go through the contents of her rented flat. Wish we'd have done this together before we got to this and I could have pointed out she doesn't need upwards of 60 pairs of Jean's and full drawer space for pants , socks and odd socks. Coat hooks on the back of every door covered in coats. And enough tea bags to fill a grain silo. But that's mum

Love her so much but nothing prepares you for this!

 

[eviled]

@Pudney what you have quoted appears to be from a solicitors website and is carefully vaguely worded lump both kinds of LPA together, I’m sure to encourage you to purchase both services through them

Doctors are obliged to make make health decisions for someone lacking capacity, consulting their next of kin, without an LPA. Family or LPA cannot insist on a treatment, but they can refuse a treatment.

The only time an LPA is useful is when the family might have conflicting views and the person in question nominates the person they feel represents their health care choices before they lose capacity

 

[Pudney]

@Pudney what you have quoted appears to be from a solicitors website and is carefully vaguely worded lump both kinds of LPA together, I’m sure to encourage you to purchase both services through them

Doctors are obliged to make make health decisions for someone lacking capacity, consulting their next of kin, without an LPA. Family or LPA cannot insist on a treatment, but they can refuse a treatment.

The only time an LPA is useful is when the family might have conflicting views and the person in question nominates the person they feel represents their health care choices before they lose capacity

I can point you to Hospice websites that state the same. Next of kin gives you no legal authority. This is particularly an issue if there’s specific wants of the individual (e.g. do not resuscitate). An LPA gives you that legal right, and it comes with legal responsibilities. Next of kin does not give you that right.

If you think the above is incorrect, please do share why you think so, because I currently have LPAs that I’d happily revoke if unneeded. Note, my LPAs weren’t the product of solicitor advice, merely research into the relevant guidance.

 

[Martynt74]

I can point you to Hospice websites that state the same. Next of kin gives you no legal authority. This is particularly an issue if there’s specific wants of the individual (e.g. do not resuscitate). An LPA gives you that legal right, and it comes with legal responsibilities. Next of kin does not give you that right.

If you think the above is incorrect, please do share why you think so, because I currently have LPAs that I’d happily revoke if unneeded. Note, my LPAs weren’t the product of solicitor advice, merely research into the relevant guidance.

Agreed, my Brother in Law had a bad stroke and had wishes of DNR (he'd spoken with us prior to this stroke as he's had one a few years prior), the doctors said that our wishes would be taken into consideration but that ultimately they would make the decision.

I believe having POA would've given us more power as they did overrule his wife, mother and sister on a few decisions.

 

[Yadda]

I have POA with regards to my mother's affairs. It was all arranged by my mother through the solicitor before my mother became unwell so I'm afraid I don't know much about it.