New MBP 13"

[Domo]

I doubt you'd be interested in a Thinkpad if you're looking at an MBP or XPS. But I thought I'd lay it on the table as an option to take a look at.

I do prefer high quality products, not just because they look nice but they tend to be better built leading to greater longevity and they incorporate better screens, trackpad and keyboard. And despite the Thinkpad's immense capabilities + Ryzen CPU, it's still a Thinkpad. Hence the draw towards XPS and MBP.

Apple has always been a little behind in spec but they do well in other areas - support, quality, device interoperability, physical store with great customer service, strong resale value, etc. It also seems people get a long life out of their products.

All of which is true. And as an OSX user since 2012 I can't figure out why I'm trying to decide between the XPS and MBP. It should be easy but I can't explain it.
Quick question, which of the two (MBP/XPS) is better equipped to run multiple networked VMs? Assuming via VMware Pro on the MBP or Hyper-V on the XPS once 10 pro is installed. Just thinking, there will be a cost saving there running Hyper-V which is bundled with 10 pro.

 

[LiE]

I do prefer high quality products, not just because they look nice but they tend to be better built leading to greater longevity and they incorporate better screens, trackpad and keyboard. And despite the Thinkpad's immense capabilities + Ryzen CPU, it's still a Thinkpad. Hence the draw towards XPS and MBP.


All of which is true. And as an OSX user since 2012 I can't figure out why I'm trying to decide between the XPS and MBP. It should be easy but I can't explain it.
Quick question, which of the two (MBP/XPS) is better equipped to run multiple networked VMs? Assuming via VMware Pro on the MBP or Hyper-V on the XPS once 10 pro is installed. Just thinking, there will be a cost saving there running Hyper-V which is bundled with 10 pro.

I don't have any experience with running Networked VMs.

What put me off the XPS and Dell in general is 1) you need the extended warranty, the laptops tend to have a few issues 2) Dell customer service is painful

 

[Hades]

I do prefer high quality products, not just because they look nice but they tend to be better built leading to greater longevity and they incorporate better screens, trackpad and keyboard. And despite the Thinkpad's immense capabilities + Ryzen CPU, it's still a Thinkpad. Hence the draw towards XPS and MBP.


All of which is true. And as an OSX user since 2012 I can't figure out why I'm trying to decide between the XPS and MBP. It should be easy but I can't explain it.
Quick question, which of the two (MBP/XPS) is better equipped to run multiple networked VMs? Assuming via VMware Pro on the MBP or Hyper-V on the XPS once 10 pro is installed. Just thinking, there will be a cost saving there running Hyper-V which is bundled with 10 pro.

Thinkpad T series are extremely high quality. They just don't look very good because of the materials. I've had several Thinkpads (and several MBP's, but no XPS yet). The Thinkpad keyboard is, for most people, way ahead of even the new 2020 MBP 13 (my daughter has one - the travel is too shallow for me). I also know which of these three would be more likely to still be running in 5 or 10 years time. Lenovo even offer schematics to strip the machine down and repair it yourself and parts availability will be strong.

The better machine for multiple VM's would actually be the Thinkpad because it has more, and faster, cores and you can spec it with W10 Pro if desired. But I understand it's not the right machine for you I'm trying to decide between these three myself. I'm leaning towards either the MBP 13 for how beautiful it is or the T14s for the sheer power of it in such a small package. I'm leaning away from the XPS, despite it looking the best out of them all and having a lovely screen, because I don't think Dell have a great reliability record. I think the T14s has the slight edge for me because I want something I can throw into a backpack, jump on a plane, and not worry about it getting scratched (and if it does I can just buy a replacement lid or base). I haven't yet seen reports of battery life but my daughters MBP 13 doesn't last as long as I'd hoped so that doesn't seem such a strong reason at this point in time.

 

[Hades]

I don't have any experience with running Networked VMs.

What put me off the XPS and Dell in general is 1) you need the extended warranty, the laptops tend to have a few issues 2) Dell customer service is painful

I had to use Dell's warranty recently when my monitor died after a couple of weeks. They were actually really good and it was swapped within 48 hours. Arguably the monitor should have lasted more than a few weeks though...

 

[LiE]

I would wait until September either way for a MBP.

Also I know it's a gaming laptop but the Lenovo Legion 7i can be specced out nicely and the reviews look solid.
https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/legion-laptops/legion-7-series/Lenovo-Legion-7/p/88GMY701410

 

[LiE]

I totally get the struggle committing to Macbook pro when you compare what you can get from Windows laptops. I have access to student discount from both Lenovo and Apple and here is what you get for comparable prices.

Legion7 15IMH05

• Processor : Intel Core i7-10750H Processor (2.60GHz, up to 5.00GHz with Turbo Boost, 6 Cores, 12MB Cache)
• Memory : 16GB(8+8) DDR4 2933MHz SoDIMM
• First Hard Drive : 512GB Solid State Drive, M.2 2280, PCIe-NVMe, TLC
• Display : 15.6” FHD (1920x1080) IPS Anti-glare 500nits 240Hz Narrow 100%sRGB Non-touch HDR
• Graphic Card : NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super Max-Q 8GB GDDR6 256bits
• 3-YR On-site upgrade from 1-YR Depot/CCI delivery

£1,608.73

Apple Macbook Pro 13"

• 2.0GHz quad-core 10th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz
• 13-inch Retina display with True Tone
• Touch Bar and Touch ID
• Intel Iris Plus Graphics
• 16GB 3733MHz LPDDR4X memory
• 512GB SSD storage
• Four Thunderbolt 3 ports
• 1 year warranty - 3 year is another £199.99

£1,618.80


The spec difference is staggering, and the Lenovo has the upgraded 3 year on site support!

 

[HACO]

I totally get the struggle committing to Macbook pro when you compare what you can get from Windows laptops. I have access to student discount from both Lenovo and Apple and here is what you get for comparable prices.

Legion7 15IMH05

• Processor : Intel Core i7-10750H Processor (2.60GHz, up to 5.00GHz with Turbo Boost, 6 Cores, 12MB Cache)
• Memory : 16GB(8+8) DDR4 2933MHz SoDIMM
• First Hard Drive : 512GB Solid State Drive, M.2 2280, PCIe-NVMe, TLC
• Display : 15.6” FHD (1920x1080) IPS Anti-glare 500nits 240Hz Narrow 100%sRGB Non-touch HDR
• Graphic Card : NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super Max-Q 8GB GDDR6 256bits
• 3-YR On-site upgrade from 1-YR Depot/CCI delivery

£1,608.73

Apple Macbook Pro 13"

• 2.0GHz quad-core 10th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz
• 13-inch Retina display with True Tone
• Touch Bar and Touch ID
• Intel Iris Plus Graphics
• 16GB 3733MHz LPDDR4X memory
• 512GB SSD storage
• Four Thunderbolt 3 ports
• 1 year warranty - 3 year is another £199.99

£1,618.80


The spec difference is staggering, and the Lenovo has the upgraded 3 year on site support!

They're really different devices, if it's gaming you're after, there's no competition between RTX 2070 and the integrated Intel one in the MBP.

Personally since I don't game on laptops (I have a PC!) but do care about high resolution displays and macOS, the choice for me is pretty obvious too, it's the MBP.

 

[Hades]

I totally get the struggle committing to Macbook pro when you compare what you can get from Windows laptops. I have access to student discount from both Lenovo and Apple and here is what you get for comparable prices.

Legion7 15IMH05

• Processor : Intel Core i7-10750H Processor (2.60GHz, up to 5.00GHz with Turbo Boost, 6 Cores, 12MB Cache)
• Memory : 16GB(8+8) DDR4 2933MHz SoDIMM
• First Hard Drive : 512GB Solid State Drive, M.2 2280, PCIe-NVMe, TLC
• Display : 15.6” FHD (1920x1080) IPS Anti-glare 500nits 240Hz Narrow 100%sRGB Non-touch HDR
• Graphic Card : NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super Max-Q 8GB GDDR6 256bits
• 3-YR On-site upgrade from 1-YR Depot/CCI delivery

£1,608.73

Apple Macbook Pro 13"

• 2.0GHz quad-core 10th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz
• 13-inch Retina display with True Tone
• Touch Bar and Touch ID
• Intel Iris Plus Graphics
• 16GB 3733MHz LPDDR4X memory
• 512GB SSD storage
• Four Thunderbolt 3 ports
• 1 year warranty - 3 year is another £199.99

£1,618.80


The spec difference is staggering, and the Lenovo has the upgraded 3 year on site support!

The T14s with 8c/16t core Ryzen 4750u, Vega 7 GPU, 512gb M.2 drive, 32gb RAM and 1080p 400nits screen, 3 year warranty, is about £1350 without discounts. I can already find a 10% discount and get a further 10% PerksAtWork discount taking that to around £1100 and it's not even on one of Lenovo's regular sales yet. If not using the PerksAtWork scheme then Quidco could be used for 5% cashback instead.

It's not MacOS, has a poorer screen and no Thunderbolt though. Personally I don't mind Thunderbolt and I'm pretty agnostic on the OS as I would just run Linux instead.

EDIT: Actually I'd save some money and get the smaller drive, then add a 1tb myself (user replaceable).

 

[Feek]

The spec is irrelevant really - It's the same with phones, it's about the user experience and how well the software works with the hardware. For me, this would be a no-brainer because macOS is always going to come out ahead of Windows.

 

[LiE]

They're really different devices, if it's gaming you're after, there's no competition between RTX 2070 and the integrated Intel one in the MBP.

Personally since I don't game on laptops (I have a PC!) but do care about high resolution displays and macOS, the choice for me is pretty obvious too, it's the MBP.

Absolutely, but if you don't have a tie into macOS and you're workflow can leverage that faster GPU and CPU then it may not be such an easy choice. You upgrade to 32GB ram for another £80.

The T14s with 8c/16t core Ryzen 4750u, Vega 7 GPU, 512gb M.2 drive, 32gb RAM and 1080p 400nits screen, 3 year warranty, is about £1350 without discounts. I can already find a 10% discount and get a further 10% PerksAtWork discount taking that to around £1100 and it's not even on one of Lenovo's regular sales yet. If not using the PerksAtWork scheme then Quidco could be used for 5% cashback instead.

It's not MacOS, has a poorer screen and no Thunderbolt though. Personally I don't mind Thunderbolt and I'm pretty agnostic on the OS as I would just run Linux instead.

EDIT: Actually I'd save some money and get the smaller drive, then add a 1tb myself (user replaceable).

Yea it does look like a solid laptop to be honest. Can't see that spec/price online though, on Lenovo using student discount I can see the 16GB model for £1,439.99

There is the one with integrated GPU you can add more memory too.

The spec is irrelevant really

Depends on what you use your laptop for. Of course if you need or prefer macOS the spec doesn't matter as you've only got Apple devices to look at.


I'm not trying to push Windows laptops here, simply providing insight into why for some it's not such an easy choice when you get a lot more power in a Windows laptop for the same price.

 

[Hades]

Yea it does look like a solid laptop to be honest. Can't see that spec/price online though, on Lenovo using student discount I can see the 16GB model for £1,439.99

There is the one with integrated GPU you can add more memory too.

The Intel and AMD pages are different. Intel is more expensive. The AMD page (before any discounts) is:
https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptop...kPad-T14s-AMD-G1/p/20UHCTO1WWENGB0/customize?

Anyway, don't mean to take this thread off topic. I agree they are targetted at a different audience and many people will prefer MacOS and an aluminium body.

 

[LiE]

The Intel and AMD pages are different. Intel is more expensive. The AMD page (before any discounts) is:
https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptop...kPad-T14s-AMD-G1/p/20UHCTO1WWENGB0/customize?

Anyway, don't mean to take this thread off topic. I agree they are targetted at a different audience and many people will prefer MacOS and an aluminium body.

Ah that has integrated GPU, I thought there was an option with a dedicated GPU.

 

[Hades]

Ah that has integrated GPU, I thought there was an option with a dedicated GPU.

Unfortunately not. The Vega 7 is faster than the Intel Iris in the T14s Intel, the MBP 13 and XPS. But it's still only an integrated GPU.

 

[LiE]

Unfortunately not. The Vega 7 is faster than the Intel Iris in the T14s Intel, the MBP 13 and XPS. But it's still only an integrated GPU.

That's cool, I was just curious. I've got my heart set on a new Apple laptop with ARM that are supposedly coming at the end of the year. As much as the Lenovo laptops have juicy specs, I'm a big fan of macOS and the other aspects you get with an Apple device mentioned above.

 

[Hades]

That's cool, I was just curious. I've got my heart set on a new Apple laptop with ARM that are supposedly coming at the end of the year. As much as the Lenovo laptops have juicy specs, I'm a big fan of macOS and the other aspects you get with an Apple device mentioned above.

Yes they will be interesting to see. They could be fantastic machines. If they are due that soon then I think anyone who strongly wants MacOS should wait to see what they are like, if they can.

 

[MacRS4]

I'm very surprised to hear anyone say the higher spec'd 9300 is merely a replacement for a Macbook.

I suspect it's down to a couple of things - expectations of the machine and also the fact that I'm a little spoilt for choice in terms of kit. The XPS is a great machine, but if I'm away travelling for example I'll want it to handle my photo & video sets. It struggles with that, and the MBPs don't.

So it's essentially fitted in to my usage as my work travel buddy machine. Possibly a bit overkill for it tbh, like you say, but that's what it's done for me - replaced my 12" MB.

If I had any regret about it it would be spec'ing the 4k screen. It's unncecessary and chews up battery life. I've one of the 2019 XPS units with a 1080 non-touch screen (and a 6 core i7 in it) and the battery in that seems to last forever.

EDITed to add about virtulisation. The XPS I have does have two HyperV Win10 machines on it for a couple of specific customer apps, and the performance isn't great tbh. It's workable, but if I know I'm going to need them I typically take my MBP with me.

The machine is in the office at the minute however I'll do a short video to show it if you like, won't take long.

 

[Domo]

First of all apologies for derailing this thread somewhat but your responses have been really helpful, hopefully to others too. @Hades that T14S is incredible, just been onto the link you posted and maxed out RAM @ 32Gbs + Ryzen 7 + 1TB + the 1920 display and yet still it is less $$$ than the MBP/XPS. Really quite remarkable and got me thinking. Those additional cores and extra RAM will help with the VMs.

Back to the MBP before more of the derail guilt creeps in or I get told off.

The machine is in the office at the minute however I'll do a short video to show it if you like, won't take long.

That would be amazing. Thank you. Are you running VMware Pro on the MBP? And do you ever run both VMs simultaneously?

 

[MacRS4]

I use Parallels and VMWare Pro on MacOS - both for slightly different things. Parallels I use for 'desktop' type stuff, so Windows 10 mostly, with specific configs for specific customers. I use VMWare for server stuff that I may at some point shove to ESX. I'm stuggling a bit with that last bit tbh. VMWare 11 has been a pain compared to previous editions and Parallels just outperforms it.

The XPS is just using HyperV.

As to running multiple machines - my 16" next to me is currently running a complete dev environment of 6 Servers and 2 Win10 clients. I connect to them using RDP. Doesn't feel any different to running it on our ESX farm! To be fair my 16" is an i9 with 32GB, however the i5 13" will handle a couple of VMs with ease.

EDITed to add, yes the icons for my NW storage are awful!

 

[Fusion]

Ah, the old spec argument. As Feek says, it’s not just about raw horsepower for a lot of people- the user experience is more important. Personally I find MacOS streets ahead of Windows 10 here, it’s not even close.

Then there’s the aesthetics, build quality, fit and finish of the hardware too. Can’t speak for the other laptops but the Pro is top notch in this regard (marks on surfaces have been mentioned, but these systems can be exchanged as has been said).

Apple are rarely going to win on a performance per pound basis, but it’s not really what they’re about.

 

[HACO]

Ah, the old spec argument. As Feek says, it’s not just about raw horsepower for a lot of people- the user experience is more important. Personally I find MacOS streets ahead of Windows 10 here, it’s not even close.

Then there’s the aesthetics, build quality, fit and finish of the hardware too. Can’t speak for the other laptops but the Pro is top notch in this regard (marks on surfaces have been mentioned, but these systems can be exchanged as has been said).

Apple are rarely going to win on a performance per pound basis, but it’s not really what they’re about.

This is my perspective as well. Raw performance is always available remotely (we submit jobs to AWS) where we can have all the horsepower (CPU or GPU) we need. The machine has to be fast and responsive enough to handle software on its side, but doesn’t need to maximise horsepower. That’s why I care a lot more about screen quality, OS, software and aesthetics.

And aesthetics isn’t just hardware. It’s in software too. Windows aesthetics isn’t even remotely close to macOS.