When are you going fully electric?

[WJA96]

Wonder how much capacity the power infrastructure has too if everyone decided they wanted 3 phase chargers

my house for example has a loop into my house then out to next door. No idea what that means for the future if both of us get EV chargers

They don’t have enough now, and that’s why they’re building power generation as fast as possible. If you’re looped, you’ll have to be unlooped, and the good news is your DNO is currently doing that work FOC.

 

[jpaul]

I thought it had already been demonstrated in the thread that a 7KW supply, or even less would be sufficient to give average daily ev miles folks need.

How much does your standing charge go up if you want 3 phase , it's not a free lunch, the supply company can't plan for a million households suddenly demanding 22KW at 7pm.,
so the standing charge will mean it won't be economic to just pull 22kW for 4 hours a day.

 

[SDK^]

They don’t have enough now, and that’s why they’re building power generation as fast as possible. If you’re looped, you’ll have to be unloved, and the good news is your DNO is currently doing that work FOC.

The building of new ‘power stations’ is to go green to replace the decommissioning fossil stations.

This National Grid link helps explain some anti-EV myths

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted

 

[WJA96]

I thought it had already been demonstrated in the thread that a 7KW supply, or even less would be sufficient to give average daily ev miles folks need.

How much does your standing charge go up if you want 3 phase , it's not a free lunch, the supply company can't plan for a million households suddenly demanding 22KW at 7pm.,
so the standing charge will mean it won't be economic to just pull 22kW for 4 hours a day.

It doesn’t actually change, because 1. I paid for the additional work and 2. It’s the same amount of electricity, and I pay for all the electricity used. You don’t use 3x the amount, you just have 3x the capacity available. And 3. It’s the type of contract I have. It’s a fixed rate contract.

As for what is available today, we know it’s not adequate. Which is why they are building more generating capacity and I’m doing my level best to reduce what energy I do use by installing as much energy efficient equipment as possible. But when you consider that from 202x (whenever they decide) you won’t be able to install gas into new homes, those homes that will rely 100% on electricity for heat will likely need 3-phase.

 

[WJA96]

You are driving more than 20 times the average daily mileage, so are very much an exception. With that daily mileage it probably wasn’t worth going EV until the tech matured.

£500/month BIK for a A6 allroad 3.0 BiTDi diesel with more on top for my private use fuel-card vs. £25/month BIK and the actual fuel cost to the business is 3-6p/mile rather than 18p/mile, servicing is a massive saving as well, probably £750-£1000 per year. Are you honestly saying you wouldn’t sit and make phone calls and safely check your e-mail for 45 minutes every 2 hours for an extra £475/month in your take-home?

And I’m hardly the exception. There are lots of people who do 200-500 miles per day. And it’s just not true that you get held up by the charging. You have to work differently, you have to work around it, but it’s really much safer and no less efficient in terms of time utilisation.

 

[WJA96]

The building of new ‘power stations’ is to go green to replace the decommissioning fossil stations.

This National Grid link helps explain some anti-EV myths

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted

But that’s just BEVs. Not the proposed ban on gas installations in new-build homes. From some point in the next decade it is proposed that there won’t be gas cookers or gas heating installed in new homes because they’re going to ban it. And people will rend their clothes and pull out their hair and say “it won’t work” and it will, because they’ll install 3-phase electricity.

 

[Simon]

It doesn’t actually change, because 1. I paid for the additional work and 2. It’s the same amount of electricity, and I pay for all the electricity used. You don’t use 3x the amount, you just have 3x the capacity available. And 3. It’s the type of contract I have. It’s a fixed rate contract.

As for what is available today, we know it’s not adequate. Which is why they are building more generating capacity and I’m doing my level best to reduce what energy I do use by installing as much energy efficient equipment as possible. But when you consider that from 202x (whenever they decide) you won’t be able to install gas into new homes, those homes that will rely 100% on electricity for heat will likely need 3-phase.

I was referring to the cabling etc rather than the input when i meant infrastructure.

 

[Simon]

£500/month BIK for a A6 allroad 3.0 BiTDi diesel with more on top for my private use fuel-card vs. £25/month BIK and the actual fuel cost to the business is 3-6p/mile rather than 18p/mile, servicing is a massive saving as well, probably £750-£1000 per year. Are you honestly saying you wouldn’t sit and make phone calls and safely check your e-mail for 45 minutes every 2 hours for an extra £475/month in your take-home?

And I’m hardly the exception. There are lots of people who do 200-500 miles per day. And it’s just not true that you get held up by the charging. You have to work differently, you have to work around it, but it’s really much safer and no less efficient in terms of time utilisation.

How many is lots? i would say 5% or less of working population do >200 miles a day but thats just a guess, any figures?

 

[jpaul]

It doesn’t actually change, because 1. I paid for the additional work and 2. It’s the same amount of electricity, and I pay for all the electricity used. You don’t use 3x the amount, you just have 3x the capacity available. And 3. It’s the type of contract I have. It’s a fixed rate contract.

so after installation, there was no delta cost over octopus go rates ?

And I’m hardly the exception. There are lots of people who do 200-500 miles per day. And it’s just not true that you get held up by the charging.

I'd read an an article in fleetnews's journal that was saying the converse, that the cost of having a field sevice engineer stuck at a supercharger, was the obstacle to ev adoption for 'road warriors' .. (article discussed also how siemens setup a booking system to maximise use of chargers at their headquarters between employees)
edit: https://cdn.fleetnews.co.uk/web/1/d...march-2021/FN_Mar_2021_mag/index.html#page=33

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Don’t understand the 22kW Taycan reference for 450 miles a day, even less people than those in your high mileage world, would be successful enough to both own a Taycan and waste that much time in a car each day

Gas banned in new builds, so new builds will require 3 phase as that get implemented 2025, not sure that’s gonna really relate to the majority of properties already built today, the idea of retrofitting to 3 phase seems bonkers to me.

 

[Journey]

I'm on single phase and am not changing, currently waiting to have an ASHP, Solar, plus battery installed, and already have the BEV charger. I highly doubt that I'll ever get near the rated 19,200W maximum, unless I turned literally everything on at the same time, which I doubt will occur.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Yeah why drag more juice in when similar money (more extreme cases I admit) might offer solar and a battery aswell as reduced household running costs.

 

[WJA96]

Don’t understand the 22kW Taycan reference for 450 miles a day, even less people than those in your high mileage world, would be successful enough to both own a Taycan and waste that much time in a car each day

Gas banned in new builds, so new builds will require 3 phase as that get implemented 2025, not sure that’s gonna really relate to the majority of properties already built today, the idea of retrofitting to 3 phase seems bonkers to me.

Clearly I have not expressed myself well. The whole point of the 22kW AC charger is that your car charges faster at home. The bigger Taycan have 93kWh batteries and they’re not especially efficient so you’re looking at 200-ish miles on a full charge with the performance battery and 160-ish with the standard battery. If, for example, you’re a Liverpool FC or Everton player and you live in Macclesfield or Alderney Edge then you’re going to need all the range, every day. And you’re going to want it to charge up at home (or at the ground) because, well, you know... fans. And it’s OK, because you can charge up that 93kWh battery at home because you spent a bit more and specified 3-phase electrics for your home with its 12 bedrooms and swimming pool.

You’re absolutely right. The whole point of the optional 22kW AC and 150kW DC chargers on the Taycan are because wealthy people don’t want to wait at public charge points. 3-Phase home power means a full battery every morning so you can drive straight to work and then straight back.

 

[WJA96]

Yeah why drag more juice in when similar money (more extreme cases I admit) might offer solar and a battery aswell as reduced household running costs.

And you’re assuming I don’t already have a Ground Source Heat Pump (GSHP), underfloor heating, photovoltaics, a WindCharger and a battery set. Let alone triple glazing with heat reflective inner surfaces, double thickness loft insulation, and door closers on all the downstairs doors (fire evaluation by H&S) but it helps keep the heat in too.

 

[WJA96]

I'm on single phase and am not changing, currently waiting to have an ASHP, Solar, plus battery installed, and already have the BEV charger. I highly doubt that I'll ever get near the rated 19,200W maximum, unless I turned literally everything on at the same time, which I doubt will occur.

Interesting that you went Air, rather than Ground source heat pump. When our installer did the calculations it wasn’t warm enough, often enough, to justify the cost whereas the heat that comes out of the ground is spectacular. On paper there was a big cost saving on installation with the ASHP but even at break even it just didn’t pay for itself. It is horrible having the GSHP installed. And think it’s well worth it.

There was a bit of “woman-maths” involved in the GSHP install though because SWMBO wanted a new patio anyway.

What were you quoted for the energy input into the ASHP? From memory, it requires much more input energy than the GSHP. My one regret is that we didn’t install air conditioning at the same time.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

PS Taycan is very efficient, they use submitted a 21” higher spec car for WLTP in typical Porsche understated way. Footballers, brilliant, they would probably take another car if one was low

And you’re assuming I don’t already have a Ground Source Heat Pump (GSHP), underfloor heating, photovoltaics, a WindCharger and a battery set. Let alone triple glazing with heat reflective inner surfaces, double thickness loft insulation, and door closers on all the downstairs doors (fire evaluation by H&S) but it helps keep the heat in too.

I was simply agreeing with Journey. That’s a lot of energy management when you not at home much

 

[WJA96]

PS Taycan is very efficient, they use submitted a 21” higher spec car for WLTP in typical Porsche understated way. Footballers, brilliant, they would probably take another car if one was low



I was simply agreeing with Journey. That’s a lot of energy management when you not at home much

The footballer example is real. They’re all working for limited companies and sub-contracting to the football club so they get the same 1st year 100% tax discount as every other limited company and they don’t pay much BIK on them as company cars either. Footballers have incredible accountants and agents, plus a lot of the cars are loaned by the manufacturers for ‘publicity’ when the players are literally told by their agents that they have to drive the car to training 1-2 days per week etc. And most of those Cheshire mansions have 3-phase electricity anyway.

Taycan’s efficiency is shocking compared to a Model S or Model X.

And who says I’m not home home much? I’m either at home all day or I’m away all day. Or that anyone else is at home, working, just because I’m not there? Or that I’m not screwing every last penny out of incentives and tax breaks because my accountant says it’s a good idea?

This thread is fabulous for my post-count. Keep it up!

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Taycan real world is awesome, not shocking. Plus awesome charge curve.

Good discussion, gone a bit off piste now though.

Q: you need to fill everyday for 450miles and you think I’m wierd for suggesting you aren’t at home much? Earlier you seemed to be dis king weirdos who have 9-5 jobs as the rare event Octopus Go works...

 

[WJA96]

Taycan real world is awesome, not shocking. Plus awesome charge curve.

Is this based on Porsche reviews or actual experience. I know several Taycan drivers and they’re struggling to get 2.5 miles per kW out of them real world.

The awesome charge curve is only when you spec the optional DC charger and most UK cars don’t have it. Obviously, all the press cars have all the toys.

 

[WJA96]

Q: you need to fill everyday for 450miles and you think I’m wierd for suggesting you aren’t at home much? Earlier you seemed to be dis king weirdos who have 9-5 jobs as the rare event Octopus Go works...

No, I said I did 450 miles yesterday, I don’t do it 7 days a week. And yes, when I’m not on the road with customers I’m in the office at home.

As far as I can see, you’re the only one making personal comments. A lot of your posts read like attacks. I think I’ve said this to you before.