Basic exams to use IT services

Soldato
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To use email, banking, online shopping and other services which involve personal details should there be mandatory exams?

I think it would be a great idea as it seems far too many people use things like online shopping and banking without knowing basics like how to change passwords and opening spam emails which results in lost passwords and loss of personal data.

Nothing will ever happen like this but maybe banking, online shopping email services should ask questions on login to continue using the service(s) safely.

At work we have mandatory IT questions, reporting phishing emails, anti money laundering tests etc. etc.
 
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I agree. It could be rolled into an existing exam such as the computer driver's license.

It still confuses me that some people still don't know how to use computers and the internet, where computers (PCs and Macs) have been in the home since the early 90s and the internet has been mainstream since the late 90s. At work for example, I still have staff members ringing up asking me how to use MS Teams, when Skype (and similar) have been used for video calls for like, forever. Well since 2007 for my family when making long distance calls.
 
Soldato
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Dont think there is any point, its only the Boomer Generation and older who are still having problems using computers, not only computers but tech in general.

That generation wont be around for very long so it be a waste of resources, most people born after mid 1970's have no problems using computers and most basic things can be done on smartphones.
 
Man of Honour
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I feel I'm kind of in the middle age wise (mid-30's) so grew up with PC's, etc and the web as it was growing.
In my experience working in IT I actually have more issues with the younger generation, many of whom seem to think that IT begins and ends with their iPhone or iPad and have barely used a desktop OS
 
Soldato
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Dont think there is any point, its only the Boomer Generation and older who are still having problems using computers, not only computers but tech in general.

That generation wont be around for very long so it be a waste of resources, most people born after mid 1970's have no problems using computers and most basic things can be done on smartphones.
I agree. It could be rolled into an existing exam such as the computer driver's license.

It still confuses me that some people still don't know how to use computers and the internet, where computers (PCs and Macs) have been in the home since the early 90s and the internet has been mainstream since the late 90s.
I have to disagree with both of these vehemently. I was a nerd as a kid but didn't get a (x86) PC until about 1999 and didn't get the internet for a good while. We were quite poor and I was on a 486 til 2000 and then a Pentium 1 til 2003. If it wasn't for me my family wouldn't have had a PC or the internet til much later.

You have to remember that some families are poor and some aren't technologically oriented. Then there are people who aren't raising kids - why would they get a computer really?

Then there are the families who are poor and have a smartphone on 4G as their only technology/connected device. Covid highlighted this with thousands of kids only being able to access school work via a mobile with limited data.

As mentioned above the younger generation aren't necessarily exposed to actual computers even if they are "online" from a young age. The reality is that there was a generation or two who had to have some savvy to get online and learned to use actual PCs day to day, but then things like smartphones and web services took away the need for familiarity.

I've had computer science graduates who've joined my team and I've had to explain the concept of files and directory structure to them.

To answer the OP though, while we're pushing for lots of important services to be online (anything from driving licenses to benefits to applying for a passport), plus Banking and communications like school, we can't wall the internet off. Sadly. We do however need to be teaching computer literacy to 100% of people and that's ok the curriculum but like most subjects who knows how well it's being taught and whether the kids are really paying attention.
 
Soldato
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I know I'd like to ban a lot of people from using excel in my work, without a certificate of competence.

The sheer ingenuity they display in creating unusable, unsortable tables is astounding.
 
Soldato
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I know I'd like to ban a lot of people from using excel in my work, without a certificate of competence.

The sheer ingenuity they display in creating unusable, unsortable tables is astounding.

I just hate people who use Excel as an database then complain when it keeps on getting corrupted......That's what you have Microsoft Access for!
 
Caporegime
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To use email, banking, online shopping and other services which involve personal details should there be mandatory exams?

I think it would be a great idea as it seems far too many people use things like online shopping and banking without knowing basics like how to change passwords and opening spam emails which results in lost passwords and loss of personal data.

I agree with you that it's a problem but I'm not sure that cutting people off from services is a good solution, I think this is an issue that needs to be tackled from a young age in schools along with some other subjects...

I mean some schools have home economics lessons etc.. but there is probably some time spent there on stuff like how to bake a cake etc.. that could be better spent on some other more useful "how to do life" type lessons.

Essentially I don't think these need fall under IT or computer science education any more than learning how credit cards and mortgages work should fall under maths lessons or guidance about diet falls under biology - obviously, the basics needed to understand these things do but the practical issues as they occur in everyday life could be packaged together into a set of lessons for dealing with the adult world.

"Life skills" could cover things like credit cards, mortgages, payday loans and the dangers of high-interest rates, how credit ratings work etc... Could do with stuff about healthy eating/diet, getting enough sleep, doing exercise. The online stuff doesn't need to just be about internet security, looking after passwords, 2FA, but could go into being careful about what you post on social media, how it could impact future employer's background checks, warnings about sending nudes etc... Even basic presentation/public speaking skills too. Maybe also interview technique, how to write a CV & cover letter etc..
 
Soldato
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I just hate people who use Excel as an database then complain when it keeps on getting corrupted......That's what you have Microsoft Access for!

You should see some of the horrific Excel creations my missus's school uses, then they wonder why it takes them so long to actually do anything productive. They are nice and colourful though.
 
Associate
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Basic computer literacy is actually dropping amongst young people. Theres lots of reports of this including for issues with basic IT skills for people doing even masters degrees (not in IT).

The theory being is most people are using walled-garden devices like phones/tablets/consoles which 'just work', so have very little real computer experience.
 
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My Dad left me creased up crying with laughter once when I let him have a go on my pc. I said "move the mouse pointer up on the screen", he literally picked up the mouse and placed it sideways on the monitor.
 
Caporegime
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I feel I'm kind of in the middle age wise (mid-30's) so grew up with PC's, etc and the web as it was growing.
In my experience working in IT I actually have more issues with the younger generation, many of whom seem to think that IT begins and ends with their iPhone or iPad and have barely used a desktop OS

I instruct IT lessons to younger adults (mostly 18-25) and quite a lot of them look like they haven't used a mouse before. Most younger adults don't use a computer, and have only experience with android/apple OS.
 
Associate
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I agree with you that it's a problem but I'm not sure that cutting people off from services is a good solution, I think this is an issue that needs to be tackled from a young age in schools along with some other subjects...

I mean some schools have home economics lessons etc.. but there is probably some time spent there on stuff like how to bake a cake etc.. that could be better spent on some other more useful "how to do life" type lessons.

Essentially I don't think these need fall under IT or computer science education any more than learning how credit cards and mortgages work should fall under maths lessons or guidance about diet falls under biology - obviously, the basics needed to understand these things do but the practical issues as they occur in everyday life could be packaged together into a set of lessons for dealing with the adult world.

"Life skills" could cover things like credit cards, mortgages, payday loans and the dangers of high-interest rates, how credit ratings work etc... Could do with stuff about healthy eating/diet, getting enough sleep, doing exercise. The online stuff doesn't need to just be about internet security, looking after passwords, 2FA, but could go into being careful about what you post on social media, how it could impact future employer's background checks, warnings about sending nudes etc... Even basic presentation/public speaking skills too. Maybe also interview technique, how to write a CV & cover letter etc..
The most noticable difference I've noticed in the younger generations is a basic lack of street wisdom. I was a director in a company that took on a couple of graduates for a job in sales. We only needed one salesperson, but the financial director who interviewed them, couldn't decide which one was likely to be the better candidate, so he employed the pair of them with the promise to the other directors that unless they both turned out to be brilliant, we wouldn't be spending money on two salaries for the long-term. They were both given short-term contracts, subject to review and possible renewal after a year.

Neither were whiz kids on computers, but they understood the basics. The brighter of the two had a BA, the other felt superior because he had an MA. They both knew only one of them was likely to be in employment at the end of the year; and in their different ways tried to undermine the other. The one with the MA turned out to be quite arrogant, but pretty useless and his time was likely to be up when his performance review came round, but this was pre-empted when he called in sick one day and a secretary discovered his girlfriend had posted photos that evening of the pair of them having a fun time at the seaside.

As the Technical Director, I wasn't particularly concerned which of them were retained, so long as they didn't give me any grief. Jobs in sales are rarely known for their longevity, but staff lower down the pecking order don't like being treated like **** by arrogant upstarts. The secretary hated him and decided to check out his social media activities. She was streetwise, even though she'd left school at 16 without a qualification to her name. To be honest, had it been down to me, I'd have promoted her to the sales job, because she was streetwise, which is the fundamental quality needed to get people to part with theior money. It also happens to be the quality needed to trap and hang ******** merchants by their own petard.

Do I blame that lad for having a day at the seaside when he pretended he was too ill to be at work? Not really, since it was the sort of thing I did when I was courting my wife. The difference was that I wasn't stupid enough to make enemies, nor was ever pompous about my educational attainment to the extent I imagined that qualifications alone would provide me with secure employment; and the last bleedin' thing I'd do is to advertise what I'm up to on Facebook of all places.
 
Man of Honour
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Doubt it would help especially when it comes to phishing and scams - some get it, some don't. I've given people every instruction possible and still 5 minutes later they'll ignore a security warning and infect their machine...

And it will become a pain for those who do know what they are doing when they've got to go through it every single time.

Something I think is under-appreciated as well is that quite a lot of older people and/or those less naturally inclined tend to learn paths to do things and don't cope well when the path changes - which is super annoying when websites and/or OS updates change things around for the sake of it and they come back to me yet again to relearn how to do what they were doing before because they can't figure it out for themselves.

EDIT: At least some of the banks try to do a phased change introducing people to the new ways of doing stuff gradually before fully changing over.
 
Soldato
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Secondary schools keep sacking off computing for dead subjects like Latin.

They don't see its value.

One example:
A ceo of a large Coventry academy Trust told the computing staff that students didn't need digital literacy as they have phones. And the time shod be spent teaching them how to code.

These people run our schools... its pathetic
 
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