EV general discussion

LiE said:
It’s probably a psychological thing really with the horror stories about huge bills for replacing a battery.
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take your audi for example, even their extended warranty does not cover >100k miles
bar the 8 years limit, it's no different to an EV

for example bmw insured warranty is also 100k miles limit (or 10 years but the 10 year can be gamed by switching to a monthly)
bar KIA, no other ICE brand has that good a manufacturer warranty for the drivetrain from factory
 
LiE said:
Feels like 3 years old is the sweet spot in the initial depreciation curve.
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as someone who has recently reseached and bought an EV, can say for certain that just after 3 years is the sweet spot
after 3 years the depreciation trajectory (not the value) is the same as an ICE equivalent
 
LiE said:
Last I checked it’s worth £18.5k-£20k, I bought it for 32k in 2018 when it was 9 months old. It was 45k new, Audi press car.
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Well that says a lot, it lost £13k in 9 months. Even the Tesla example hadn't lost that much in a year and that was standard spec car. Obviously hardly anyone pays MSRP for a car, or at least I hope they don't, so the actual money lost could be way lower than the optics suggest.

LiE said:
Feels like 3 years old is the sweet spot in the initial depreciation curve. I like the look of the BMW i4 which seem to be about 30k-ish for a 2023 model. But as I said I’d worry about keeping it for 4-5 years then it not being worth much due to the battery being out of warranty.
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You could ask @cuke2u he had an i4 not long ago, perhaps he can help with his figures - from what it cost to what it is currently worth (I know it was used not sure how old).
LiE said:
It’s probably a psychological thing really with the horror stories about huge bills for replacing a battery.
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Unless something went very wrong i4 batteries are repairable, just not as simple as some other cars so may end up being a pretty high cost, especially in the event of a crash, so more likely to be written of etc.

Like any technology change, it takes time for the incumbent method to be beaten on price for all aspects - simple thing for you is don't take the risk if you don't want to, personally I could never ever go back to an ICE car they are just janky as hell.
 
tamzzy said:
take your audi for example, even their extended warranty does not cover >100k miles
bar the 8 years limit, it's no different to an EV

for example bmw insured warranty is also 100k miles limit (or 10 years but the 10 year can be gamed by switching to a monthly)
bar KIA, no other ICE brand has that good a manufacturer warranty for the drivetrain from factory
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How good is battery/range on a 8 year old/100k mileage EV though? My Audi still runs the same as the day I bought it and the only huge bill comparable to a battery replacement is an engine replacement which is super rare.

I've had mobile phones that still meet my needs but the battery degradation meant I had to either replace the battery or get a new phone. Most places wouldn't touch a used phone with a battery below a certain capacity. I know this isn't exactly how an EV works, and maybe I need some education, but I struggle with it.
 
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Journey said:
Like any technology change, it takes time for the incumbent method to be beaten on price for all aspects - simple thing for you is don't take the risk if you don't want to, personally I could never ever go back to an ICE car they are just janky as hell.
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These types of comments are so odd. Not every ICE is janky.

And whilst you may see a car as a way to get from A to B others don’t and want something that’s more than a microwave.
 
LiE said:
How good is battery/range on a 8 year old/100k mileage EV though? My Audi still runs the same as the day I bought it and the only huge bill comparable to a battery replacement is an engine replacement which is super rare.

I've had mobile phones that still meet my needs but the battery degradation meant I had to either replace the battery or get a new phone. Most places wouldn't touch a used phone with a battery below a certain capacity. I know this isn't exactly how an EV works, and maybe I need some education, but I struggle with it.
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Your battery will have lost some range. But as I don’t know how old it is or how many miles you have done it’s hard to say. It’s certainly low some versus a 65l fuel tank that never gets smaller
 
tamzzy said:
it's not an issue for most, you just don't want to be the unlucky one
same as it is for ICE, it also is, for EVs
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It doesn’t really matter on a macro level. Ultimately the market dictates supply and demand. And dictates the residuals.
 
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LiE said:
How good is battery/range on a 8 year old/100k mileage EV though?
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"Modern electric vehicles can retain 80-90% of their original battery capacity after 8-10 years or 100,000+ miles, with the average battery capacity loss at only 2.3% per year."

www.electriccarscheme.com

EV Battery Lifespan Guide | The Electric Car Scheme

Key practices to maximise EV battery lifespan, plus a comprehensive guide covering all essential aspects of electric vehicle battery technology.
www.electriccarscheme.com www.electriccarscheme.com

feel free to take with a pinch of salt
 
And a ice is 0%

Don’t get the point being made. My first EV went back after 3 yrs. I asked to extend a year and they wanted £150 a month more to ‘cover the residuals’. I’m now on my second. It will go back after 3 yrs thanks to salary sacrifice tax breaks. But as someone who’s walked the walk I don’t buy new cars usually anyway but the EV Goldilocks era too hard to ignore. And this what drives so many sales.

Talking about second hand cars doesn’t really apply to new car uptake.
 
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Yes. So crap residuals mean people get great second hand buys at the expense of the guy who bought it new…

Not really difficult. Its kind of tiring reading the same stuff about how second hand EVs are great value them in same breath people say residuals are the same. They aren’t
 
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tamzzy said:
take your audi for example, even their extended warranty does not cover >100k miles
bar the 8 years limit, it's no different to an EV

for example bmw insured warranty is also 100k miles limit (or 10 years but the 10 year can be gamed by switching to a monthly)
bar KIA, no other ICE brand has that good a manufacturer warranty for the drivetrain from factory
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They don’t need one either as people buy the products without needing a 8 yr warranty
 
Simon said:
Its kind of tiring reading the same stuff about how second hand EVs are great value them in same breath people say residuals are the same. They aren’t
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used EVs are great value and the residuals are definitely not the same, that I've already said as much, and many times before

tamzzy said:
after 3 years the depreciation trajectory (not the value) is the same as an ICE equivalent
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tamzzy said:
A 3-4 year old tesla has taken the brunt of the depreciation up front already that the residual depreciation follows the normal curve of an ICE equivalent
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tamzzy said:
The expected depreciation calculators all suggests that once the EV is 3-4 years old the depreciation curve matches the ICE equivalents.
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tamzzy said:
As I've bought a used EV, the massive initial depreciation was footed by the original owner, and for me now, the trajectory now follows an ICE car
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tamzzy said:
Hopefully that means that the depreciation curve of a 3 year old Model 3 should match my 7 year old 440i GC there or thereabouts...making the jump to an EV more financially sensible
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tamzzy said:
used EVs are great value and the residuals are definitely not the same, that I've already said as much, and many times before
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Your first quote says depreciation is the same. The second then says it’s the same after 3 yrs. are we ignoring the first 3? Depreciation matters to new buyers. You seem to be ignoring that. For cars to be made you need someone to buy it. So how much they lose in 3 yrs is rather important. No one buys a new car cause it won’t lose more than an ice after 3 yrs !

I’ll give up before being told I’m bickering again
 
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