Precisely! The fact that they've failed to act on them before now is quite unbelievable. Especially when others making such statements against other groups dont receive the same treatment.
Mass shooting at Bondi beach Australia
- Thread starter bingham67
- Start date
Precisely! The fact that they've failed to act on them before now is quite unbelievable. Especially when others making such statements against other groups dont receive the same treatment.
Yep, very brave of them. Posthumous medals required.
And just think, if they weren't allowed 6 guns or whatever it could have ended there and then after he had wrestled the gun off of him.
Instead the attackers just got another gun out and shot them both
I think the public should be trained on what they can and can not do in such a situation, they probably had no idea if they were allowed to shoot the men or not. One of them had a perfect chance to eliminate at least one attacker
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It's bit of a bandaid to cover a bullet hole (pardon the pun) approach though.
None of us should ever be put in a situation to even have consider doing so.
In a perfect world we'd remove the initial problem, and we really really should remove the initial problem.
Apparently the rifle jammed.
No amount of training alone will make most people killers (fortunately) - and even the slightest uncertainty will result in most people hesitating even if they can operate the weapon and prepared to put down a threat.
Unfortunately in these situations the attackers have a massive advantage in that for them they know, so to speak, the rules of engagement of the situation.
I think that was more just that the guy had no experience with firearms - more worrying though was the police initial response or lack of it in those crucial first few minutes - I think they probably need to completely revaluate their training for dealing with active shooters.
They were also outgunned, though these kind of events happen so infrequently it doesn't make the case for regularly carried long guns like it does in say the US. (But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be more prepared).
What I found quite concerning as well - despite there being a lot of people in panic and/or trying to get out of the way there was still a fair few people despite what was obviously going on who were basically carrying on in their own reality as if nothing of consequence was happening and/or it was just some kind of minor inconvenience to their day - I've seen this increasing lately in coverage of incidents of this nature and it boggles my mind.
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I've seen it quite frequently in other situations too. Full blown NPC behaviour.
Yeah - obviously you get some people who freeze up, etc. but there seems to be a big increase in what can only be described as NPC behaviour in recent years.
Dealt with it at work today. I had a 500kg stone slab being lifted in to place on a building. Old town centre so narrow streets and pavements. Had a lane of the road closed off with traffic control in place. Closed one side of the footpath off with a clearly signposted diversion. Barriers up. Tape in place.
Woman squeezes herself between two of the barriers and is immediately shouted at by one of the labourers on watch. Ignores him. Another one physically blocked her path and asked wtf she thought she was doing. "I'm trying to get to the post office". Like...do you not think we have all these signs and barriers up, diversions in place, 8 blokes in hi-viz and PPE with a hoist in place for a reason?
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Does not surprise me - there was a road closure on my road a few weeks back and loads of people were ignoring the signage and putting the workers in danger before being forced to turn back...
Training for active shooter scenarios was introduced and tactics reviewed and modified after the Lindt Cafe siege in 2014, but it's unreasonable to expect a handful of regular officers armed only with pistols to form up and assertively deal with the threat posed by two shooters with rifles.
So was the detective who turned up at the scene and took the decision to end it (as did some random members of the public who were unarmed - some of whom paid with their lives).
In the US it's not uncommon for police forces to carry a rifle or similar in their vehicles - UK armed response units tend to have access to a carbine or submachine gun in their vehicles too.
I don't think it is, that's part of what they're paid for (granted it's rare) - even unarmed members of the public tried to tackle the gunman, it likely would've saved lives - I'm not saying they needed to have run right up to them - the detective took his shots from 40 meters away AFAIK and using a tree.
We've seen the same thing in the US, a 6 minute attack and the officer responsible was prosecuted as a result - in his case they've obviously got some active shooter SOPs he was supposed to have followed, in the Aussie case maybe not, they perhaps were technically correct and following inadequate rules/SOPs (but these are armed officers so that really ought to be looked at else why are they armed...) - either way it's frustrating to see that some of them didn't take the initiative and act - thankfully the detective who arrived did so despite seemingly doing so alone and also only armed with a pistol.
Scot Peterson: Parkland officer on trial for failing to stop shooting
Scot Peterson is thought to be the first US officer ever charged with failing to respond to a school shooting.
www.bbc.co.uk
Risk, and need for trained response isn't limited to shooters anyway - closer to home, the westminster bridge attack ,
and even for shooters you are reliant on c019 attendance in London, can't have them outside every place of worship/cultural event.
and even for shooters you are reliant on c019 attendance in London, can't have them outside every place of worship/cultural event.
The police responded well to this shooting, despite the fact that they were outgunned. Their response time was exceptional, and they managed to kill one of the shooters. The shooting lasted <7 minutes from start to finish.
(Source).
(Source).
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Soldato
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Yeah, there's people calling out the fact the the police drove by before intervening (from the limited amount I've seen). That's not an unreasonable position given they weren't equipped to deal with it head-on.
The citizens who intervened were undoubtedly heroic - The one guy who lived and is being treated, but also the 69yo man and 61yo woman who wrestled a gun from one of them before he pulled another from his bag and killed them (and maybe others). They took those actions and I applaud them for it, but I'd never expect it of anyone.
The citizens who intervened were undoubtedly heroic - The one guy who lived and is being treated, but also the 69yo man and 61yo woman who wrestled a gun from one of them before he pulled another from his bag and killed them (and maybe others). They took those actions and I applaud them for it, but I'd never expect it of anyone.
Soldato
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The Australian PM announcing a new crackdown on hate speech. He’s done it, he’s fixed the problem… If only he’d done this a couple weeks back, there would have been no religious extremists owning multiple weapons.
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Soldato
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Its kind of baffling that this happened considering they have digital ID already. /s