I feel ill asking this but..... 00-02 530d/sport info/advise?

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Hi guys. Now I know this is place is practically the unnofficial BMW fan so please don't flame me for any opinions I may cast during posting in this thread but I can't believe I am about to ask for advise on buying a beemer....

I have held off selling Fluffy for as long as possible now but I have no choice, she has to go this month. Before fuel prices went north of stupid I always planned in getting a nice 4.2 A8 or S8 but have slapped myself back to reality.

I am doing my best to narrow down my options for a 'normal' car and this has proved to be very difficult. I was driving a 02 V70 D5 around for a month but saw sense and returned that to the folks instead of buying it off them. It had more 'issues' than any other modern car I had driven!

I decided that if I was going to 'go slow' I would do it properly and get an auto estate for sure. Might as well have max practicality non? I started sniffing around the likes of Merc E320 cdi but the other half almost started crying at the thought of parking something that big, despite the fact that for a woman, she parks very, very well. Anyway, I then had a look at the likes of A6 diesel estates and they looked nice there was just something not quite there for me.

I gave up and decided to have a look at 5 series beemer estates. Now sorry, but I am one of those people that just doesn't/didn't like BMW's. To be honest, I found that most of the time I would be stuck behind one of you, with nothing for miles ahead and you refusing to actually use the left lane or your rear view mirror lol. Sorry, stereotype but there you go ;).

Apart from the slightly odd looking wood-type dashboards, I am looking strongly at a 00-02 530d or ideally a 530d sport estate. When not holding me up, I always thought they looked very composed and shifted very nicely for a diesel :). I think it would be a good match for me as I am dreading losing all my power going down to a diesel and these seem like they are a pretty good compromise.

Again, sorry for the BMW dig, just one of those things and this will be my first BMW. No doubt I will be converted if I buy one! In comparison to working on jap cars which is beautifully straightforward, are these going to prove awkward to modify/improve? Sounds like a silly question but working on my mum's Audi is a pain in the bum due to various things being audi-specific design/sizes etc. Hope that makes sense.

Anyway, for all the youngsters reading this what the above basically says is 'I AM BEE EM DBLYOU NOOBIE, HLP PLZ K THX BYE'

Am I looking at a solid/fairly economical choice and what do I need to look out for? My impreza is absolutely bulletproof and I want that to continue with whatever I get next.

/me waits for the 'search is your friend' posts :).

Thanks,

Nick. :)
 
I love mine to bits.

The major expenses to me have been
Transmission Rebuild @ £1800
Turbo replacement @ £800

Minor bits and pieces that fall outside of regular maintanance
Roll Bar link @ £25
Xenon level sensor @ £50
High level brake light holder @ £1.00odd
KDS @ £150

I am sure there are more but those are off the top of my head, they aren't cheap to run but they are nice cars! You can get these cheap, and the petrols more so.
 
I was looking at the avg mpg on Parkers for example and the diesels seems to be a lot better. Fuel costs have got to be better than what I am running now. There is one thing I forgot to mentione. The vast majority of our trips are to work and back. 10 miles there in the morning, 10 miles back in the evening. Don't know if that is of any use but there you go ;).
 
Buy a 530i instead. 530d's of this era aren't super economical and given >10% price premium of diesel fuel you can't recover the savings unless you do starship miles.

If you want an economical big car you'll just have to accept some slow in your life. A 520d or A6 1.9TDI can both do north of 55mpg. Then buy Se7en clone for weekend hoons.
 
I was looking at the avg mpg on Parkers for example and the diesels seems to be a lot better. Fuel costs have got to be better than what I am running now. There is one thing I forgot to mentione. The vast majority of our trips are to work and back. 10 miles there in the morning, 10 miles back in the evening. Don't know if that is of any use but there you go ;).

Well I get about 35mpg on a 20 mile commute, 60% a road, 40% motorway driving at around 1.00 leptons.
 
Absolutely fantastic cars but then I would say that - I have no problems admitting that I am a blinkered E39 fanboy. But only since I got mine, and I only got mine becuase it really is noticeably better than any similar car of the same sort of age. Now thats out of the way...

.... it will not be as bulletproof to run as your Impreza. Stuff WILL break. Some it it will be cheap and easy to fix, some of it will be less cheap and less easy to fix. It's unlikely to ever let you down but for some people throwing 300 quid here, 100 quid there at it might get a bit annoying. For me, well I'd rather pay to repair mine than pay for depreciation in a newer Vauxhall so I'm still dead happy.

I wrote a pretty comprehensive guide on what to look out for which I will attach to the bottom of this reply.

Firstly though - are you sure you want a 530d?

I drive both a 530d SE and my 530i Sport (Infact until I took the 530i on a 500 mile trip the other day I've probably covered more miles this year in the 530d, ironically) so if you've got any direct questions about the differences I should be able to provide you with a useful opinion. Interestingly fuel consumption report for that trip:

Exeter-Worcester, M5: 39.2mpg (Yes, 39.2mpg. I was so shocked I then brimmed the tank to check for accuracy of the fuel computer).

Worcester-Southampton (rush hour in Worcester, went a bit quicker on the way back to Soton) took the average down to 35.7mpg over a total of 280ish miles.

Southampton-Plymouth (Early evening, not much traffic, not driving for economy, plenty of overtaking but no silly speeds) averaged 31mpg.

The big thing with the two is you need to make sure the additional economy you get from a 530d will offset the considerable additional expense associated with buying one AND the potential additional failiure points such as the turbocharger and high pressure injectors. 530i's are often up to £2k cheaper than an otherwise identical 530d, and of course are ultimately faster cars.

Fuel economy wise...

Around town, short trips from cold:

530i 20-23mpg, 530d 28-31mpg

Mixed runs, blasts along single carriageway A roads, overtaking, etc etc

530i 28-31mpg, 530d 36-39mpg

Motorway work at 70ish

530i 37-40mpg, 530d 44-48mpg

And here follows the post I did the other month:

Ok, buying a 530i..

Firstly you've got to be really careful. The best way to buy a good value used BMW is to buy an absolutely immaculate example thats less than 5 years old from its original owner. Unfortunately as time goes by its more and more difficult to do this with the E39 so you need to be a tad more open minded.

These are excellent cars with absolutely fantastic build quality. In terms of build its probably the best BMW have managed and not since it was around, new, has BMW had a car on the market thats been so much better than the competition. This means that condition wise it's very easy to keep them looking very nice and the interior is very hard wearing. This has a few important consequences:

a) You can be fussy on condition - it shouldnt be 'in good condition for age' it should just be in good condition. There are 10 year old E39's out there which look like new inside. Mine is the wrong side of 150k miles and you cannot tell. This means you can, if you are fussy, get a really nice example

b) They are very easy to clock - you can take a 140k mile car, wind it back to 80k, and nobody will suspect a thing. This happens far more often than it should, I looked at at least two cars at auction with high miles which subsequently turned up on Autotrader a few weeks later with less miles on it. The usual 'look for worn out seat' etc etc advice doesnt apply becuase even after 100k miles the seats remain in good condition.

So, be very careful. Insist on Full BMW SH as a) it shows the owner hasn't been the sort to skimp on looking after the car and b) you can verify the history wtih BMW and thus verify the mileage is genuine. In theory if the car detects its been clocked (The mileage is stored in different places in the car) it brings up a red dot beside the mileage on the dashboard but there might be a way round this. Be careful.

c) You don't really need to worry about mileage unless you plan to resell it in a short period of time. This peice of advice becomes less relevant as the cars get older and get more owners as it's far more difficult to work out how the car has been used but I'll say it anyway. These are fundamentally very reliable cars which wear miles very well and are very capable of being in excelent condition pretty much regardless of mileage. Even the common failiure points on them seem to happen at a certain age rather than mileage (More on those later). Therefore, buy on age, condition and history first. Use mileage to negotiate the price.

So, what to look for. Personally, a car with as few owners as possible. Far too many E39's now have 900 owners all of whom have had varying opinions on how much money you need to spend on a car to keep it going. Remember, to most people, a car is worth to them what they paid for it until the day they trade it in. The more they've paid the more you'll hope they'll value the car and thus be prepared to spend to keep it running (There are of course exceptions to every rule but this is a good guide).

Personally, I'd want a one owner from new example but at the age of car you'll be looking at, 2 owners from new with the last owner having had it 2-3 years is probably more likely and thus more reasonable.

As far as the actual interior condition goes, the only areas of wear should be on the drivers side bolster of the Sport seat, and perhaps a little on the steernig wheel. Everything else, dashboard, buttons, gearstick, etc etc is very resiliant and should be showing little signs of wear.

For context, here are some photographs of what the interior of mine was like - 140k miles:

interior1.jpg

interior2.jpg


Really baggy seats, scratched leather, etc etc = hard life and/or abuse. Don't buy one from a fat guy as they tend to ruin the drivers seat.

Onto the exterior..

Again, very well put together. Perfect shutlines etc etc, if not, ask questions. Watch for rust. Yes, rust, on a BMW, but there we go. Two areas on the E39 - inside the fuel filler cap, and on the boot tailgate where it meets the bumper. Neither of this is structural, its purely cosmetic, but you can probably use it as a bargaining point all the same. If the car is under 6 years old it's both covered by the BMW Corrosion Warranty.

Wheels - on the 17 inch Sport wheels you do get little patches of corrosion under the laquer. The 18 inch wheels, by far the best, are Diamond Cut and if not cleaned on a regular basis can also suffer damage. Use the condition of these to judge how much the care has been cared for. Tyre sizes are different front and rear so make sure the owner hasn't cheaped out. For reference:

17: 235/45/17 front 255/40/17 rear
18: 235/40/18 front 265/35/18 rear

Rear tyres on the 18's are a bit expensive as it's a stupid tyre size thats shared only with the Porsche 911 C4. Grrr.

Driving...

If it doesn't feel right it probably isn't - the engine should be very smooth. It is here I will mention the E39's biggest bugbear. They are very sensitive to wheel balance and imperfections in the aluminium suspension setup (Be that allignment, worn bushes, etc etc) and this will tend to cause 'the dreaded shimmy' where you can feel a vibration through the entire car at speed. Do try not to accept any car with this shimmy unless you are certain why it has it, becuase it can be any of a number of things. Most common are wheel balance (Most tyre shops cant balance E39 wheels properly becuase they are monkeys) or warn upper/lower control arm bushings.

It will not feel that fast, despite the fact 0-60 will come up in 6.7 seconds and it'll hit 100 in just over 17 seconds, becuase the car is very refined and most of the engine noise etc doesn't make it into the cabin. This is a shame, as it robs the car of the thrill of acceleration, but a quick check of the speedo will remind you that actually, you are going quite quick. Top speed is limited to 155mph but without this limiter the 530i has been known to hit speeds of 156, perhaps even 156.5mph

So what goes wrong and how much is it going to cost you to run?

Well so far my list of things that can and do break is thus:

a) Shimmy. As described above. If its bushes, £250 a side should see it right.

b) COOLING SYSTEM

The cooling system in the E39 5 Series is crap. Not in the efficiency sense, but in the reliability and longevity sense. It WILL fail, usually when the car is between 5 and 7 years old seemingly regardless of mileage. The OEM radiator has a design fault which leads to it splitting at the plastic end tanks and ****ing cooling all over your engine bay. If it doesn't fail like that, then the plastic header tank will split. On the cars you are looking at for this sort of money if it hasn't had a replacement cooling system it's almost certainly going to need one during your ownership.

Replace the lot at once - waterpump, radiator, header tank, upper/lower hoses (May as well) and the thermostat. Budget about £400-£600 for this work.

I hate the cooling system, it is truely the only nightmare I have had with my car. And so has EVERY other 530i owner I know, without fail. But once its replaced you should be ok.

Oh and the header tank is black, so you can't check the level of coolant if the engine is warm. GOD DAMNIT.

c) Propshaft

Most people ignore this. I got a whole new Propshaft out of BMW for it. It's usually just a bearing. The centre bearing or propshaft donut can wear out. You will hear a 'chink' nose as you apply power from 1st or 2nd gear. An indy can fix this for less than 200 quid. Or you can ignore it like Olly has.

d) Climate Control system

The most common failiure here is the Final Stage Resistor, or 'Hedgehog' (Its got a huge heatsink on it that spikey). It fails and your climate control goes bonkers, randomly adjusting blower speed and doing even more impressive things like leaving your internal blower on all night and flatening your battery. A new one is 50 quid, takes 20 minutes to fit, but it can be a bit awkward. If you've got no blower at all its your blower motor, these require the dashboard to come out. This one just cost me 320 quid at BMW.

e) Automatic gearbox

These can fail but I've no idea how common it is. Half the internet reckons its becuase you didnt change the sealed for life gearbox fluid at 100k miles. The other half the internet reckons it's something else or becuase you DID change the gearbox fluid at 100k miles. I don't care as autoboxes are for old people. A new box is a large amount of money.

I can't think of much else off the top of my head, will add later if I do.

So aside from stuff breaking how much will it cost you to run?

Servicing is on a variable system with 15,000 miles as a base. Use it around town/thrash it, and it'll be less. Sit on the Motorway and it'll be more. The servicing order, and prices, are as follows:

Oil Service - £80-170 depending on where you go. You can get them done by BMW for about 130-140 quid including oil if you've got a decent dealer.

Inspection 1 - £200-£300.

Oil Service

Inspection 2 - £270-£400

Oil Service

Inspection 1

Oil Service... etc. You get the idea.

You also need brake fluid every 2 years @ £30-£80 and Coolant every 4 years at about the same cost.

Tyres - a full set of decent tyres for the 17 inch wheels will set you back about £450 or £550 for the 18's. If you are a cheapskate ***** you can buy crappy Kumho's or something for less but if you are a cheapskate ***** please buy a different car, thanks <3

Insurance - is Group 17 but suprisingly reasonable.

Tax - is loads. If its a Y reg or newer it will be affected by the governments utterly retarded taxation system. The manual will cost £415 a year to tax, and the automatic £430 a year to tax.

Fuel consumption. If your name is Olly and you have steel toecap boots you will get 19.2mpg. If your me and you find the Ken Bruce show on Radio 2 really rather thrilling you'll get 39.2mpg. If you are a normal person living in the real world you'll see 30-35mpg on a trip, 18-23mpg around town, and something in the middle in general driving. It takes Super Unleaded.

Bad points?

a) It's too refined. It robs you of the excitement you get from accelerating quickly yet still gets you into license loosing territory far too quickly without you realising
b) The stereo is so awful it's beyond rubbish.
c) Muppets keep buying them and fitting fake shark fins on the roof and stupid 19 inch wheels.

Thats about that really. They do cost rather a lot to run - but personally I think its worth every penny. I absolutely love mine and despite test driving loads of other stuff I've yet to drive a single car which makes me think 'I need this over my E39'. It's the perfect blend of performance, economy, long distance ability, A road handling, good looks without standing out, etc etc. And it even looks like an M5, with factory fit M badges everywhere to suit people like me who really want an M5 but cannot afford one.

Brilliant cars. Just don't buy a bad one, or buy a good one and ruin it with crap replica wheels.
 
Oh, my post was about Saloons not Tourings, everything should be the same though although with a Touring you couldnt get the 18 inch wheels and you don't get wider rear wheels on the 17's so the tyres are a bit cheaper. And the tailgates rust a bit more. Tourings also have self levelling rear suspension, but I dont know much about that.

Edit: And the Cooling system stuff doesnt apply to the 530d. It's a better system and even has a clear plastic header tank.
 
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Oh.

My.

God.

That was a mammoth post fox, thank you very, very much. I am just watching the end of the tennis (I know I know) and I will go through that properly but it looks outstanding. Just a quick thing. I do tend to wait until the car is at proper temps (we get at least 10 mins of stop/start traffic before the road opens to/from work) before I drive my normal way but I am not one for gentle/fluid use of the loud pedal. Basically if I am given the road to overtake, I will be foot to the floor the vast amount of the time until I am past whatever it is. Once past with a good gap I am relaxed. With the other half I have to practically abuse her to actually use the accelerator when overtaking etc.

What car will be more economical to run based on our fairly short journeys and my driving style do you think? Thanks again!
 
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Seriously Fox... get out more :)

honestly now

do you not do this much research on your prospective car purchase ? i'll know every options list, revision, etc.. off by heart.

And be able to provide usefull insight as to ownership expectations after having owned one.

I would have thought everybody would know this much about their particular model of car.
 
Oh.

My.

God.

That was a mammoth post fox, thank you very, very much. I am just watching the end of the tennis (I know I know) and I will go through that properly but it looks outstanding. Just a quick thing. I do tend to wait until the car is at proper temps (we get at least 10 mins of stop/start traffic before the road opens to/from work) before I drive my normal way but I am not one for gentle/fluid use of the loud pedal. Basically if I am given the road to overtake, I will be foot to the floor the vast amount of the time until I am past whatever it is. Once past with a good gap I am relaxed. With the other half I have to practically abuse her to actually use the accelerator when overtaking etc.

What car will be more economical to run based on our fairly short journeys and my driving style do you think? Thanks again!

Foot flat to the floor all the time will be best for a diesel rather than petrol.
 
What car will be more economical to run based on our fairly short journeys and my driving style do you think? Thanks again!

Petrol probably. Lets say you do 10 miles each way, every day, even at weekends. Thats only 7300 miles a year.

You'd get roughly 25mpg in the 530i or 35mpg in the 530d perhaps with that sort of driving.

530i cost @ current fuel price of £1.20 a litre: £132 a month
530d cost @ current fuel price of £1.32 a litre: £104 a month

So not much saving really. I'd be looking at the less complex, quicker and cheaper petrol
 
Hmm. Now we are running just the 1 car I think we will probably be doing about 7k a year. At those estimates I would be going for the petrol I think but on the rare occasion that the other half puts in fuel in I know she will complain. The relative simplicity of a petrol compared to a diesel is also appealing as I can feel a lot happier tinkering. I realise that I will have to go to BMW for servicing but I will be doing stuff myself too. Doing the math, my current avg is only about 14mpg on a good day where it is just me driving.

From my recent experience working on that D5 I considered buying myself and seeing just what the repair costs could be (£1500 for a set of injectors that it badly needed for example!), the monthly fuel price difference is nothing to worry about and I can only see the price gap between the 2 fuels increasing at the moment. The one thing I will miss is going to a normally aspirated lump, never thought I would leave the forced induction brigade! I daren't tell darling that these are RWD as she swore she would never get in another one with me after I bought her an Eunos and used to take her out in it. [/debal] ;)

Thanks again for all your replies so far :).

P.S. Just to add, I will most likely be looking at 7-8k for one tops, am I dreaming when it comes to getting a clean one based on Fox's guide? I can't really afford anymore currently and I want to have a little bit left when I sell Fluffy.
 
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[TW]Fox

Fantastic post good soild information and no crap, wish more people made posts like that.
Gf father has one and i will be passing on this info.
 
P.S. Just to add, I will most likely be looking at 7-8k for one tops, am I dreaming when it comes to getting a clean one based on Fox's guide? I can't really afford anymore currently and I want to have a little bit left when I sell Fluffy.

Thats enough for a clean one - that budget bought me mine nearly 2 years ago although it was a high miler.
 
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