Contract cancellation, where do I stand legally?

Stellios · 14 Jan 2011 at 13:59

Hey guys and gals, just after a bit of advice as I dont really know where to start.

Besically since around June last year ive been reporting a fault to Orange that I cannot use my phone when I am connected to 3G networks, literally if Im on a 3G line that my phone stops sending/receiving phone calls, texts and I cannot do anything with the internet. This is a fault that has been looked into extensively by myself and numerous Orange tech support personell. When Im using the phone on 3G via the web the phone shows as information is being sent, but nothing is ever recieved back......ever.

Last week Orange requested that I send them my sim card so they could investigate properly and yesterday I spoke to a rep on the phone who said "your sim has been posted back to you and they have found the fault, its simply down to congestion on the network and should get better in time". At the time I gave her the benefit of the doubt and waited for my sim to get back to me, today it did with the same fault still there. Orange atttached a letter upon return stating in part "no issues experienced with OUTGOING traffic on any service" even though Ive explicitly told them on more than one occasion that the phone seems to send fine it just never recieves back.

Im at the point now where Ive gave up with them and their technical support and am looking into legal paths to cancel this contract 5 months early as really if its a problem with their network (which its been admitted as congestion) then surely there is a legal stance in my contract to be able to cancel it due to them not being able to provide the service they say they can....

Has anyone got any advice at all how to go about sorting this out? who I need to speak to and which part of Orange I need to go to when starting this sort of action.

Ive briefly spoken to a solicitior about this and his response was pretty much "if they cant provide the service they are contracted to provide then they are in breach of terms".

Thanks for any help at all,
Paul

J4K3 M · 14 Jan 2011 at 14:57

Not sure where you stand with orange but I know with 02 and vodafone that if your phone keeps having problems and you send it off 3 times and they find faults with it they have to give you a new phone and sometimes go to the length of cancelling the contract

manveruppd · 14 Jan 2011 at 15:07

I was browsing through Ofcom's webpage the other day when the whole T-Mobile thing blew up and there's LOTS of info on that sort of stuff. Basically, under certain conditions it may fall under the "fit to purpose" clause of the Consumer Protection Act and you'd certainly be able to cancel (and possibly even claim for compensation). Do some research on Ofcom's site!

Before you go that route though, I assume you've already tried the SIM in another phone to make sure it's their fault and not your handset's?

Morba · 14 Jan 2011 at 15:35

Has it degraded over time or has it been like that from the start?

Stellios · 14 Jan 2011 at 15:48

Yes its been tried in my Desire Z, an HTC HEro, LG Viewty and an Iphone 3G. Ive also tried my mams 3 sim in my phone and that works on 3G without fault.

Ive just tried to pop down the CAB but they are shut until Monday now, so ill pop back on Monday.

Ive just came off the phone to Orange CS again and they said they had gave my sim card to the TSA department, which apparantely is the most advanced tech team they have and they found no fault with outgoing traffic. They also said that if I am able to connect to a 3G network and transmit data then I should have no problem whatsoever in recieveing the data response and the only reason that would stop the response would be an overcongestion of the network which is what I was told yesterday. The lad I spoke to also told me that in my area there is reports of congestion on the network and Orange have just recieved permission off OFCOM to start using their 2G towers to transmit a 3G signal although this hasnt been implemented yet so it may or may not solve my problem.

The lad said that as for tech support goes, it has been dealt with by their best and if its still not been fixed then theres not much point in dealing with them using tech support over the phone and I should begin contact via letter or fax with their head office and hes gave me the address and advised me to sen d a letter in asking that my problem is immediately passed onto senior management.

SO, after what has just been said, woudl it change my stance for cancelling the contract? I said on teh phone to the lad that I have no interest in cancelling the contract if it can be fixed and he pretty much told me that all that can be done has been and that its pretty much down the congestion so theres not much they can do.

Morba said:
Has it degraded over time or has it been like that from the start?

Degraded over time as far as I can tell, but my initial contact with them back in Juneish time was a complaint that when people text me it was sometimes taking 4 hours to be recieved and when people were ringing me it was diverting to my voicemail. After a couple of complaints of this nature they told me to force my phone to use 2G only and it solved the problem, which is when this 3G issue was first discovered.

Stellios · 14 Jan 2011 at 17:26

For anyone interested, this is a letter that Ive drafted and am going to sling in the direction of Oranges head office in Bristol.

If im missing anything or any changes are required then Id appreciate the help as im new to this sort of thing.

I am writing to you today in response to an ongoing problem that I have had for over a period of 6 months now that your technical team have not managed to solve, to the point they have said that there is nothing they can do and that I should begin communications with this department rather than your call centre. I was also advised that I should request that this matter gets passed onto senior management due to the length of time that the fault has taken so far to be rectified.

Around June 2010 I contacted your call centre on 150 to report that when people were trying to ring me their calls were being sent to my voicemail even though I had a strong signal. This was demonstrated by people that were actually stood next to me so that I knew they were being serious. I also noticed that when receiving SMS messages that they were sometimes being received in excess of 4 hours after they were being sent. This is when I initially contacted Orange regarding an issue.

After a couple of communications I was told to change the settings on my phone to force my phone to only use a 2G signal and see if that helps. This solved all problems with calls and SMS messages, outlining that it was a problems with my 3G connection on the phone.

Basically I can connect to a 3G Network but cannot do anything whilst connected to it, meaning that I cannot send or receive SMS messages, send or receive phone calls or do anything with relation to the internet.

I have had numerous communications with your tech support teams and they have told me to do different things. First it was a simple check your APN settings and being sent software updates via SMS. This had no effect whatsoever so in early December 2010 I was sent a replacement SIM card in an attempt to solve the problem, and it had no effect at all in improving the situation. After this attempt Orange requested that I send them my SIM card so that it can be tested for any issues that may occur either in the SIM, or on my account. I sent my SIM card off to Orange on the 6th January 2011 and have just received it back on the 14th January with a letter attached saying that the SIM card was tested for the transmission of outgoing information and it operated correctly (please find attached a copy of the letter).

However, on the 13th January I rang Orange customer services to see how the investigation of my SIM card was going, and was told that they had tested my SIM card and found that it was not me at fault, but the over congestion of the 3G network in my area. The lady told me that things were being implemented in my area to attempt to solve these problems and effectively she told me I should put up with the fault and see if it gets fixed.

I have now received my SIM card back and am stuck with the same problem, my phone will connect to a 3G network but will not do anything whilst connected to it, I cannot send or receive text messages, send or receive phone calls or doing anything related to internet usage either.

Today I rang up your customer support team again to say that the error has not been fixed and needs further pursuing. The gentleman that I spoke to said that when my SIM card was sent off for analysis it was given to your TSA department which is the best technical department you have. The gent placed me on hold and yet again spoke to the TSA department and when he returned to the call he told me that TSA have looked at their notes and have done everything they can to fix my issue, and if my phone is capable of sending outgoing traffic then it is definitely capable of receiving incoming traffic unless my cell tower is so congested that a response cannot be given. I was then advised by one of your customer service representatives that there are reports of extremely high congestion in my area and that Orange have just had permission off OFCOM to use your 2G cell towers to transmit 3G frequencies, but this may or may not solve my issue, and I think 6 months of patience is more than enough to solve this issue.

Finally I was told to contact you regarding this situation, which I am doing now. I currently am paying £35 per month for contract which I specifically wanted for the data usage, and am now very irritated that I can only make use of a connection that is not much faster that a 56k dial up modem due to your network being over congested. Whilst I understand that 2G is an acceptable solution for many users on your network, I own an HTC Desire which is designed to operate using Google’s services online, and the lack of a good connection is very annoying. However, the internet is the least of my worries. I am more concerned at the lack of capability to send or receive SMS messages and phone calls whilst connected to this network as this is more than just an inconvenience. I am sure you need use of your phone on a regular basis, I am no similar, I need my phone to be working 24 hours a day for many different reasons, and the fact that I cannot use my phone whenever I need it is my main issue.

I have already briefly spoken to a solicitor regarding this matter and he is confident that now you have admitted that this issue is a fault of your own that I am not being unfair in my request to have my contract terminated penalty free due to Oranges lack of capability to provide the services they say they will provide when the contract was agreed. If your 3G signal actually worked even slowly then I would understand your issue with the termination of this contract, but due to the fact that it has been proven on more than one occasion now that it is Oranges infrastructure at fault I see no good reason as to why you would force me to remain in this contractual agreement, as you are clearly failing to provide the services you say you will provide. I am more than happy to remain on my contract if you can show to me that you have fixed this issue, but unless this issue is resolved I will look to get the contract cancelled even though it only has around 5 months remaining.

Obviously I am more than happy to pay for any services used, but there is no reason why this contract shouldn’t be terminated without any cancellation charges. I have not yet taken up the advice of the Citizen Advice Bureau or OFCOM, but these will be my next points of contact if a satisfactory agreement is not reached.

I look forward to hearing from you in the near future with either my PAC code and confirmation of penalty free termination, your confirmation that my fault has been rectified (not just looked at) or your reasoning as to why you think there are no legal grounds for cancellation, bearing in mind that your best tech support team have said that it is definitely a problem caused by the over congestion of your own network infrastructure.

A very disappointed and long time customer,

Paul Steele

Wicksta · 14 Jan 2011 at 18:05

Have you/they actually tried a different SIM yet?

If not then I'd go down the local Orange shop and get a replacement - I've seen other similar weirdness which has been fixed by a new SIM.

Stellios · 14 Jan 2011 at 18:34

New SIM sent out at the start of December and it made no difference mate

Morba · 14 Jan 2011 at 22:34

Not sure if you might be better sending it to Hatfield office, think all the head office people are down there now rather than in bristol. Could be wrong and have no idea who is in my building though!

MOOGLEYS · 16 Jan 2011 at 11:50

This may not be still valid but a few years back the easy way out of a phone contract was to send your phone and sim all packaged up as it came back to the phone company by special delivery. When they recieve the phone and sim they will sign as having recieved the items which then invalidates your contract as they are no longer supplying you with the means to use their service as they have your phone and sim which they signed for accepting responsibility..

Its more than likely not do-able now but I know a few RAF lads that did this and had their contracts cancelled. But this was a good 4-5 years ago..