What if a manufacturer has a genuine reliability issue that prevents their engines being able to complete a race? Should they be banned from fixing it?
F1 Testing 2014: Week 2 Bahrain
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
What if a manufacturer has a genuine reliability issue that prevents their engines being able to complete a race? Should they be banned from fixing it?
Tbh I'm a bit lost as to what your saying?
The engines are fixed for cost reasons, not to fix power output. It isn't a 'spec' engine formula. But likewise it isn't an open development formula so you can't upgrade just for power.
So the FIA allow reliability fixes, which is fair, providing they are primarily reliability. And if one team gets to far ahead or behind in terms of power output then they will allow upgrades to level the field.
The engines are fixed for cost reasons, not to fix power output. It isn't a 'spec' engine formula. But likewise it isn't an open development formula so you can't upgrade just for power.
So the FIA allow reliability fixes, which is fair, providing they are primarily reliability. And if one team gets to far ahead or behind in terms of power output then they will allow upgrades to level the field.
At the start of the 2013 season Lotus and Ferrari had the faster race package.
Alonso/Ferrari messed up.
They couldnt open a huge gap over RBR.
RBR merely hung on at the start of the season.
Then after the Summer, they won 9 races in a row.
Ergo, they started the year on the back foot and then finished strong.
This year, I can see them doing the same. They merely have to hang on before the Summer and then pummel the opposition after the Summer.
The problem for them I believe is reliability. This could be their undoing.
2013 was massively swung in redbulls favour once they changed the tyre compounds back to 2012 spec. Funnily enough over the summer break. They were competive before but it was an out of character mid season change that allowed them to be so dominant in the 2nd half of the year, not everyone elses lack lustre efforts.
If the tyres hadnt have changed back to 2012 compounds i fully expect a very different second half to 2013 would have played out.
If the tyres hadnt have changed back to 2012 compounds i fully expect a very different second half to 2013 would have played out.
But should the other manufacturers pay for doing more "reliable" testing (with or without cars surrounding them) just for Renault to get away with "reliability" upgrades after the freeze date?
Its not like they have had 3 months to come up with these power sources. It was Reanult's choice to be "less integrated" than the other teams when chose to diversify a few years ago (Im sure a couple of BBC articles have referred to this in the last couple of weeks).
edit - Look if engines appear to be reliable in testing and break down in the intensity of a race weekend thats one thing. Engines that can barely do 20-30 laps at a time even in pre-season testing is an utter fail by that manufacturer, and imo is their own tough luck (and yes reliability, and only reliability
, fixes should be allowed - and in "fixed period(s)" during the season should be allowed to try increasing the power to the level of the peak engine if necessary/ required rather than free for all whenever they can. That should be their penalty for not creating a reliable power source in the first place).
Winning two out of the 1st four races isnt in any way "hanging on". After the summer they ran away with it, sure, but they were already pretty darn good before that
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Soldato
rb and Renault have already said that the power train was great on a dyno but crap when fitted in the car
It's down to how it's packed in and I see no reason why Renault should be given any amount of time to redesign it. Tough at the top.
It's down to how it's packed in and I see no reason why Renault should be given any amount of time to redesign it. Tough at the top.
They appear to have a significantly more generous cooling system in place, which supports the theory that the Renault issues are heat related.
They did.
Even Mercedes weren't immune to having reliability issues. Williams are the only team to not have caused a red flag.
Caterham were also apparently running the bare minimum ERS possible, just to get miles on the setup.
Caporegime
Sebastian Vettel was leading the championship from the third race, Red Bull Racing were leading the championship from the second race. It takes a pretty fanciful view of events to imagine that this somehow constitutes them merely hanging on.
Yes, the total dominance they enjoyed in the second half wasn't there in the first half of the season but it's deeply counter-factual to suggest that the leading team and leading driver were struggling.
'Bernie, this is Dieter. Our car doesn't look good this season. In fact it is terrible. Could you please find a way of letting us win again? Double points at the last race once Herr Newey has made our car fastest? Ya, that will do. Danke. The payment to your normal account as usual?'
May not be entirely accurate. Or even the slightest bit true.
May not be entirely accurate. Or even the slightest bit true.
Soldato
As indicated before, I'm conflicted on this. The sound of the new V6s is good, richer, deeper. But the volume just isn't there.
I've already posted a couple of videos from Jerez this year. The only benchmarks I have are from Monaco in 2013 (i'm struggling to find the film I took from 2011). You can watch the opening lap from Monaco here
Unfortunately, as with the live TV feed, a simple recording cannot capture the difference between now and then. I think I really like the new V6 engines, for the reasons already articulated. They are more complex and do sound great. But the V8s literally want to rip you apart, and when your ear drums give up your bones will still be listening.
Stable, boring, unpredictable, the rip of the V8s left you in doubt that you were watching the pinnacle of motorsport. The V6s will need a lot more on track action to convince you of the same. More inclusive though - you can take your kids to F1 in 2014.
EDit - here's the parade lap from Istanbul 2011. Enjoy the forward blowing exhausts of Lotus
(bag of spanners in a washing machine)For context, here is the McLaren Mercedes with Jenson Button from Jerez last month
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Soldato
Apologies for another post, but I'm really trying to articulate the differences between last year and this, as it really will not be apparent on TV, only live at the track. Yes, I do know that they were not running at full power at Jerez (see my update for the initial thoughts).
This is what I believe will be missing in 2014. In the V8 era you could hear the cars from a couple of miles away. Get to the circuit gate and you know you're at F1. Get to your seat and you can hear everything. The sound of the V8 at full throttle is an ear-piercing joy, whether you're in front of it, beside it or behind it. They scream.
I'm pretty sure that good TV production will make up for the silent V6s though.
This is what I believe will be missing in 2014. In the V8 era you could hear the cars from a couple of miles away. Get to the circuit gate and you know you're at F1. Get to your seat and you can hear everything. The sound of the V8 at full throttle is an ear-piercing joy, whether you're in front of it, beside it or behind it. They scream.
I'm pretty sure that good TV production will make up for the silent V6s though.
It is the rumble that is gone. The whine is still there also now the wind up of the new ERS stuff is great its the bass that will be missed, I went to Silverstone about 3/4 years ago and was lucky enough to be in the BRDC and the rumble! Could feel it go through your stomach! This year I doubt you will get that.
Soldato
You won't get that stomach rumbling feeling, that's exactly why I went to testing and the GP at Silverstone last year to try and soak up the V8s as much as I could before they went to f1 engine heaven :|
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I went to Spa last year, and for me, you can hear the wine from miles away. Got close to the circuit and your ears hurt- Amazing experience and something I'll remember for the rest of my life.
I like the new sound, but at the moment, i don't think it'll give me the same awe inspiring, goosebump feeling. Hopefully, I'll be wrong though.
I like the new sound, but at the moment, i don't think it'll give me the same awe inspiring, goosebump feeling. Hopefully, I'll be wrong though.