SPCR 120mm fan roundup... and a general 120mm fan discussion.

Joe42 · 28 Nov 2006 at 20:45

Well, spcr finally got round to actually reviewing some fans recently, first with an 80mm fan roundup and now a 120mm fan round up.
If you have any interest in aircooling, or silent computing, i recommend you go and have a read. I expect many people will have already seen it.

Some very supprising results from the 120mm fan review, with the nexus/yate loon d12sl12 coming in third. This fan has been the recommended fan round here for some time. Its still a superb fan however, its just finally been knocked off the top spot.

So, if you're buying a fan and want low noise with the best airflow you can get, looks like its best to get the 1200rpm version of the noctua.

Supprised to see the sycthe fans do so well, as the one that comes with the ninja (unless mine is a lemon) are pretty bad, they resonate a lot and click.
The pabst fans that ocuk sell came out pretty good, so if you're looking for the best silent fan from ocuk, get either the papst one or one of the scythe ones.
The antec tricool fans i've tried and i have to agree with spcr they are excellent fans, i would say these are the cheapest really good silent fans you can get, they seem to be about half the price of all the others.

I'm still of the opinion that the 120x38mm fans have far more potential for better airflow/noise ratios, sadly not many silent fan manufacturers have made any good ones. With any luck i'll soon be sampling the d12sl12's big brother to see if thats any good.

Heres a list of fans i'm still waiting to sample/see a review of:
-Zalman 120mm. I found that the 80mm zalman was almost as good as the nexus 80mm fan which won the spcr 80mm fan roundup, so i have high hopes for the 120mm version and intend to sample one soon (these are available from ocuk, if anyone has one perhaps you could let me know what its like).
-Sharkoon 1000 golf ball 120mm. These have been around for a long time but i've never had a chance to hear one, so i might have to get hold of one soon and investigate.
-Yate loon 120mm x 38mm D12SM-12D. Hoping to get hold of one of these soon as mentioned above, it should have the same bearings as the nexus/d12sl12, but as its thicker with any luck it will be better.

I've been collecting 120mm fans mainly for some time with a view to finding the best silent fan there is, these are ones i've tested that spcr haven't reviewed:
-Coolermaster blue led (4 samples). Half the price of the antec tri-cools and a quarter of the price of the other silent fans, these are very quiet but unfortunately move very little air. Perfect for use when on a budget however, and about the only decent quiet fans with leds i know of.
-Akasa blue led (two samples). Horrible fans, very high airflow though but not to be considered for quiet computing really. They click even when undervolted. If your looking for a highairflow case fan though they would do an excellent job providing noise isn't an issue.
-Coolermaster black (3 samples). Same as the blue led ones really, very cheap for what they are and reasonably quiet even at full speed, they do resonate a lot though so benefit from use of a fan controller to set them at a non resonating speed. As with the blue led ones, at low noise levels the airflow is very poor.
-Panaflo 120 x 38mm L1A (one sample). My first contender in the search for a quiet 120x38mm fan. Clicks too much for use at any speed except the minimum speed at which it will rotate. Which is a shame because the airflow even at that speed is pretty good, this fan has inspired me to hunt down soe more 38mm thick ones with better bearings.

Feel free to add your own opinions and experiences of 120mm fans, and your thoughts on the review.

I would encourage Gibbo to get stock of the noctuas if he can, as they'll sell like hot cakes after that review and i'd like a couple myself.

Arcane · 28 Nov 2006 at 21:23

Thanks for that, a good read!

Joe42 · 28 Nov 2006 at 21:35

They are very thorough, i just wish that they would review more fans like the ones mentioned above, as i often have to use a fan for some time to really decide if i like it or not, and i struggle to compare fans properly with just my ears.

p4radox · 28 Nov 2006 at 21:44

Thanks for your views, quite interesting to hear some subjective opinions.

I'd love to try some of the 38mm thick fans at some point. Let me know how the Yate Loon is when you get your hands on it.

Joe42 · 28 Nov 2006 at 22:13

Will do.

Joe42 · 5 Dec 2006 at 21:03

Just a little bump as i've seen two threads today asking for the best quiet fan, with some somewhat questionable advice given.

I'd like to know why people keep buying and recommending akasa ambers? I can't really comment as i haven't heard one but being both ball bearing and closely related to the blue led ones i very much doubt they are any good. I've yet to hear of a good quiet fan using ball bearings. What have your experiences been with these?

Also, the winner of that review, the noctua has been found by many to loose a lot of performance when used with a heatsink or as a rear fan in a negative pressure case, so it might be an idea to go for a nexus/d12sl12 or scythe for heatsink and rear fans and only use the noctuas for front intake fans with no restriction.

Paolo · 5 Dec 2006 at 21:13

On the Sharkoon front, i`ve got 2 of those 120mm fans and i can say for sure that they`re very quiet.

WJA96 · 5 Dec 2006 at 22:23

Like anything from SPCR I'm very wary of that review. There is clearly an Arctic Cooling Fan 12 in the picture on the front page, yet they didn't test it. Why not?

As for Akasa Ambers being closely related to LED fans with ball bearings I'm not sure where you get your information from, but they are made by YS-tech and they are actually very quiet.

Joe42 · 5 Dec 2006 at 22:56

The reason they haven't tested the arctic cooling fan is it takes forever to test these fans so they are splitting it up into multiple roundups. But why is that a reason to doubt their methods?

I think you'll find spcrs test methods to be extremely thorough to say the least. Have a read of their fan testing methodology here.

The reason i thought the ambers were closely related to the blue led ones is they look very similar. I think i read on the specs that they use ball bearings.

Spcrs anatomy of a silent fan article might also be worth a read.

Edit: It says on akasa's website that the ambers are ball bearing.
Comparing the pictures of the ambers with these blue led ones it looks to me like the motor is identical, and my experience with the blue led ones has not been good, they clicked even at lower speeds. Although i'm more than happy to be proven wrong about these ambers, thats why i'm asking.

WJA96 · 6 Dec 2006 at 06:01

Joe42 said:
The reason they haven't tested the arctic cooling fan is it takes forever to test these fans so they are splitting it up into multiple roundups.

OK - You made some pretty big statements in your original post about how the Yate Loons have been knocked off their top spot and how the Antec tri-cools are the best value for money. You also say you are surprised that the Scythes did so well as yours was very poor.

They only tested 6 fans. And one of those was an Antec ( :rolleyes:

) They obviously have loads of fans so why only test those 6? When will they test some more? They admit in their 80mm test that they could not properly test the AC 3 fan (replaced over 12 months ago by the AC 8) because it's design doesn't fit their test rig. Is that why they can't/won't test an AC Fan 12?

They also only tested one sample of each. I've had good, bad and indifferent fans from a wide variety of manufacturers. I think that Yate Loon/Panaflo are consistently best and that if you buy them in the right places Akasa Ambers are a good cost/noise/airflow compromise.

Joe42 said:
But why is that a reason to doubt their methods?

They are way too close to Antec to be allowed to test anything made by Antec in the same test as anything else.

Joe42 said:
Edit: It says on akasa's website that the ambers are ball bearing.
Comparing the pictures of the ambers with these blue led ones it looks to me like the motor is identical, and my experience with the blue led ones has not been good, they clicked even at lower speeds. Although i'm more than happy to be proven wrong about these ambers, thats why i'm asking.

The Ambers are ball bearing but I never said they weren't and what is the problem with ball bearings? They are highly unlikely to be powered by the same motor as the LED ones. Why do I think this?

1. They turn at a different speed with 12V through them
2. They are made in a different factory, in a different country
3. the LED ones are noisy, the ambers are not.

The whole area of discussion is highly subjective. I personally have a problem with SPCR because of their very close links with Antec. I bought a P180 based on the hype generated by SPCR. It was poorly made and actually noisier than my existing Akasa Eclipse with Amber fans fitted. The more I read SPCR documents the more I become certain that they are too close to Antec to be trusted. Then again, you could say that I am now actively looking for pro-Antec statements in SPCR reviews so I could be accused of bias.

Anyway - I suspect that Yate Loon/Panaflo and Akasa Amber will still be well regarded in a long time as they're quite good, even though they may no longer be 'the best' according to SPCR.

Joe42 · 6 Dec 2006 at 12:40

WJA96 said:
OK - You made some pretty big statements in your original post about how the Yate Loons have been knocked off their top spot and how the Antec tri-cools are the best value for money. You also say you are surprised that the Scythes did so well as yours was very poor.

They only tested 6 fans. And one of those was an Antec ( ) They obviously have loads of fans so why only test those 6? When will they test some more? They admit in their 80mm test that they could not properly test the AC 3 fan (replaced over 12 months ago by the AC 8) because it's design doesn't fit their test rig. Is that why they can't/won't test an AC Fan 12?

They also only tested one sample of each. I've had good, bad and indifferent fans from a wide variety of manufacturers. I think that Yate Loon/Panaflo are consistently best and that if you buy them in the right places Akasa Ambers are a good cost/noise/airflow compromise.

They tested multiple samples of each fan, in many cases 4 or more, as mentioned in the review, or if not in the review itself, elsewhere.
They tested the 6 most promising and most popular and most talked about fans first i think. I don't see why it matters, they have split their roundup into parts because it takes so long.
They have been discussing the ac fans and i;m sure they will find an accurate way or measuring them.

I do agree with you that they are not testing enough fans quickly enough, but i think their testing methodology is almost flawless, and i've tried fans that they have tested and come to the same conclusions, such as the nexus 120mm and 80mm.

Regarding the scythe, i was supprised they did so well because the two supplied with my ninjas were not particularly good imo.

They are way too close to Antec to be allowed to test anything made by Antec in the same test as anything else.

I have 2 antec tri-cools and they sound exactly as spcr says they sound, just a little louder than the nexus. Their testing methodology stays the same for all fans and they are not paid by antec for anything. The p180 is widely regarded as a good case for quiet computing, the problem is it only make a difference when you already have quiet components. I have an Antec nsk2400 which was also co-designed with spcr and its a fantastically well designed case and it does reduce noise levels.

The Ambers are ball bearing but I never said they weren't and what is the problem with ball bearings? They are highly unlikely to be powered by the same motor as the LED ones. Why do I think this?

1. They turn at a different speed with 12V through them
2. They are made in a different factory, in a different country
3. the LED ones are noisy, the ambers are not.

The whole area of discussion is highly subjective. I personally have a problem with SPCR because of their very close links with Antec. I bought a P180 based on the hype generated by SPCR. It was poorly made and actually noisier than my existing Akasa Eclipse with Amber fans fitted. The more I read SPCR documents the more I become certain that they are too close to Antec to be trusted. Then again, you could say that I am now actively looking for pro-Antec statements in SPCR reviews so I could be accused of bias.

Anyway - I suspect that Yate Loon/Panaflo and Akasa Amber will still be well regarded in a long time as they're quite good, even though they may no longer be 'the best' according to SPCR.

You implied here that there were not ball bearing:

As for Akasa Ambers being closely related to LED fans with ball bearings I'm not sure where you get your information from

As i said i haven't sampled one, thats why i'm asking for information on it, The reason i haven't sampled one is because its got ball bearings, and i know of no other really good quiet fan that uses ball bearings, and because i thought it would be similar to the blue led one. I'm glad to hear it isn't.

The problem with ball bearings is explained here, but if you won't accept that all i can say is there aren't many quiet fans which use them and there must be a good reason for that.

I never said the nexus/d12sl12 was poor, its still a fantastic fan, all i said was there now appear to be some better fans. Its still worth getting.

I've not had much luck with panaflo myself, mine seems to click a lot, although its certainly not bad. I can never really decide if i like it or not.

You are absolutely right, its very subjective, but so far everything i've bought that spcr have reviewed has been as exactly as they said it would be. Thats one nsk 2400, two antec tricools, nexus 120mm fan, nexus 80mm fan, seasonic psu. I've also had these fans before spcr reviewed them and i drew the same conclusions about them that spcr now draws.

I think i'll probably add the akasa amber to my list of fans to try as so many people seem to like them.

WJA96 · 6 Dec 2006 at 14:41

Joe42 said:
They tested multiple samples of each fan, in many cases 4 or more, as mentioned in the review, or if not in the review itself, elsewhere.

Actually - they didn't. They tested 2 of each 5 times. The actually admit that it is unrealistic for them to measure sample variance.

Joe42 said:
They tested the 6 most promising and most popular and most talked about fans first i think. I don't see why it matters, they have split their roundup into parts because it takes so long.

The 6 most promising and popular in whose opinion? I'll bet that in the UK and the US Akasa Ambers outsell most other quiet fans. So why not have them in the initial batch?

Joe42 said:
They have been discussing the ac fans and i;m sure they will find an accurate way or measuring them.

One problem is that their test rig consists of a bit of foam with a square hole cut in it. This supposedly removes the effect of vibration - but I want to know if a fan is going to vibrate. I would rather have the fan bolted onto a piece of steel or metal as it's manufacturers intended (so Acoustifan and SilenX would be tested using their rubber screws) and the airflow measured on the other side of a 120mm hole in the metal plate.

Joe42 said:
I do agree with you that they are not testing enough fans quickly enough, but i think their testing methodology is almost flawless, and i've tried fans that they have tested and come to the same conclusions, such as the nexus 120mm and 80mm.

I don't think their testing is almost flawless, but it is uniform and consistent which is a massive improvement on most fan tests. I particularly don't like the way they select out some quiet fans not because they are noisy, but because the noise they make is 'the wrong sort of noise'. That's subjective and has no place in an objective review. Then the whole foam mount thing I have already discussed above. If a fan is going to vibrate - that is also very important to me.

Joe42 said:
Regarding the scythe, i was supprised they did so well because the two supplied with my ninjas were not particularly good imo.

I think this comes back to them not being able to estimate or measure sample variation. If the manufacturer's quality control is poor then the best designed fan in the world could be fabulous one day and terrible the next.

Joe42 said:
I have 2 antec tri-cools and they sound exactly as spcr says they sound, just a little louder than the nexus. Their testing methodology stays the same for all fans and they are not paid by antec for anything.

Antec are a major sponsor of NSPC ie. they pay for the site. I doubt that they do that out of the goodness of their heart. I would find it very surprising, given that SPCR claim to have had a major input into designing at least 2 of Antec's recent case range, if SPCR do not have a 'special' relationship with Antec.

Joe42 said:
The p180 is widely regarded as a good case for quiet computing, the problem is it only make a difference when you already have quiet components. I have an Antec nsk2400 which was also co-designed with spcr and its a fantastically well designed case and it does reduce noise levels.

I haven't used the NSK2400 so I won't comment, but the P180 was a disaster. And the oft repeated comment that Antec's customer service is fantastic is probably because they have plenty of practice dealing with complaints. Now, there is a very good business maxim - "It's not how you screw up, It's how you make it right that the customer remembers" and I think Antec are very good at making the customer feel well treated after they have had a less than satisfactory experience with Antec's quality control.

Joe42 said:
You implied here that there were not ball bearing:

It wasn't my intention, but having re-read the post it can be taken that way. I didn't intend to mislead anyone and if anyone was mislead then I would apologise for that.

Joe42 said:
As i said i haven't sampled one, thats why i'm asking for information on it, The reason i haven't sampled one is because its got ball bearings, and i know of no other really good quiet fan that uses ball bearings, and because i thought it would be similar to the blue led one. I'm glad to hear it isn't.

You should try one, if only to take it back if it's no good. The 80mm is particularly good for it's size and the 120mm can be found for under £8 if you look about. I think that makes it a good compromise fan for performance/cost and noise.

Joe42 said:
The problem with ball bearings is explained here, but if you won't accept that all i can say is there aren't many quiet fans which use them and there must be a good reason for that.

I read that whole article twice and basically it comes down to this;

They had 2 "reports". The first is a report as I would understand it. The second is an information page from a web site. The first report was written by an engineer who works for a company that specifies and sells all types of fans - sleeve and ball bearing. The second was written by a company that manufactures only sleeve bearing fans. The first report said that in most ways ball bearing fans are better. The second report says that sleeve bearing fans are better as long as the fan is running slowly (although they don't say how slowly) and mounted vertically. If mounted horizontally the sleeve bearing fan is likely to be noisier, have a reduced lifespan and be subject to sudden, terminal, seizure.

From that I certainly wouldn't rule out ball bearing fans.

Joe42 said:
I never said the nexus/d12sl12 was poor, its still a fantastic fan, all i said was there now appear to be some better fans. Its still worth getting.

You implied that you had bumped the thread because people (including me?) were making dubious recommendations about quiet fans. I recommend what I know to be consistently good.

Joe42 said:
I've not had much luck with panaflo myself, mine seems to click a lot, although its certainly not bad. I can never really decide if i like it or not.

Is this what SPCR refer to as a the 'wrong' kind of noise?

Joe42 said:
You are absolutely right,

You know it dude!

(Sorry - but talk about a hostage to fortune!)

Joe42 said:
I think i'll probably add the akasa amber to my list of fans to try as so many people seem to like them.

Do, you might be pleasantly surprised. But I would try the Arctic Cooling ones first - must more airflow for half the money and less noisy (by my aged ears).

Joe42 · 6 Dec 2006 at 15:37

WJA96 said:
Actually - they didn't. They tested 2 of each 5 times. The actually admit that it is unrealistic for them to measure sample variance.

You can't expect them to test 10s or even 100s of the same fan because of sample variance, its simply not practical. You can say what you like about spcr, and i agree they do have their shortcomings, but at the end of the day its the best we've got. I know of no other review site which even comes close.

The 6 most promising and popular in whose opinion? I'll bet that in the UK and the US Akasa Ambers outsell most other quiet fans. So why not have them in the initial batch?

I agree, they have missed out some essential fans, such as the zalman, the amber and the panaflos. But its better than nothing and with any luck they will test some ambers at a later date.

One problem is that their test rig consists of a bit of foam with a square hole cut in it. This supposedly removes the effect of vibration - but I want to know if a fan is going to vibrate. I would rather have the fan bolted onto a piece of steel or metal as it's manufacturers intended (so Acoustifan and SilenX would be tested using their rubber screws) and the airflow measured on the other side of a 120mm hole in the metal plate.

I don't think their testing is almost flawless, but it is uniform and consistent which is a massive improvement on most fan tests. I particularly don't like the way they select out some quiet fans not because they are noisy, but because the noise they make is 'the wrong sort of noise'. That's subjective and has no place in an objective review. Then the whole foam mount thing I have already discussed above. If a fan is going to vibrate - that is also very important to me.

I would like to see a case test as i've found some fans are massively different when bolted to a case. Their testing is consistent though and its about the best there is. Chances are if a fan si reading 19dba in spcr's test rig its not going to be at all bad even when bolted to a particularly resonant case.

I think that aspects of the noise character are subjective, yes, but noise character matters a lot. They say the noise characteristic of the nexus is very smooth and i have to agree, compare the nexus to another fan which gives the same noise rating and have a random group of people decide which they prefer and they will all pick the nexus. You don't have to read their advice about noise character if you don't like it because they still provide dba ratings, but it can be useful.

I think this comes back to them not being able to estimate or measure sample variation. If the manufacturer's quality control is poor then the best designed fan in the world could be fabulous one day and terrible the next.

Thats true, but what can they do? It would cost far too much to test tens or even hundreds of samples, so we have to make do with 2 or 3. Apart from using more fan samples, what can they do about this?

Antec are a major sponsor of NSPC ie. they pay for the site. I doubt that they do that out of the goodness of their heart. I would find it very surprising, given that SPCR claim to have had a major input into designing at least 2 of Antec's recent case range, if SPCR do not have a 'special' relationship with Antec.

Whats nspc? I still think that the review of the tricool is fine, for two reasons. 1: I've got two and they are exactly as described by spcr. 2: If antec wanted a good review why did the tricools come 4th and not 2nd or 3rd?
I don't think there is any reason to believe that antec's close relationship with spcr has lead to corruption, they have given antec psus bad reviews, they don't have antec psus near the top of their recommended psu list. The antec fan hasn't been reviewed until now, it didn't come unusually high in the ranking.

I haven't used the NSK2400 so I won't comment, but the P180 was a disaster. And the oft repeated comment that Antec's customer service is fantastic is probably because they have plenty of practice dealing with complaints. Now, there is a very good business maxim - "It's not how you screw up, It's how you make it right that the customer remembers" and I think Antec are very good at making the customer feel well treated after they have had a less than satisfactory experience with Antec's quality control.

So the p180 has poor quality control. How exactly are spcr at fault? They can't determine quality control from reviewing it, and the design is good.

You should try one, if only to take it back if it's no good. The 80mm is particularly good for it's size and the 120mm can be found for under £8 if you look about. I think that makes it a good compromise fan for performance/cost and noise.

I think i will. Unfortunately even with spcr now starting to review some actual fans i'm still finding i have to buy a lot of useless fans before i find the best ones. It is making it easier though to have a review of at least some of the quiet fans so i have a rough idea of what needs to be tried.

I read that whole article twice and basically it comes down to this;

They had 2 "reports". The first is a report as I would understand it. The second is an information page from a web site. The first report was written by an engineer who works for a company that specifies and sells all types of fans - sleeve and ball bearing. The second was written by a company that manufactures only sleeve bearing fans. The first report said that in most ways ball bearing fans are better. The second report says that sleeve bearing fans are better as long as the fan is running slowly (although they don't say how slowly) and mounted vertically. If mounted horizontally the sleeve bearing fan is likely to be noisier, have a reduced lifespan and be subject to sudden, terminal, seizure.

From that I certainly wouldn't rule out ball bearing fans.

My main reason for assuming ball bearing fans aren't going to be quiet is simply because there aren't very many good quiet fans that use them and the only reason i can think of for that is that it must be more difficult to make quiet fans with them. However i'm sure its possible and i'm willing to be proven wrong.
I haven't ruled them out, but if i have a choice of two quiet fans to try and i know nothing about them other than that one has ball bearings and one has sleeve bearings i'll go for the sleeve bearing one because its more likely to be better.

You implied that you had bumped the thread because people (including me?) were making dubious recommendations about quiet fans. I recommend what I know to be consistently good.

Not at all, i just noticed a few 'which quiet fan?' threads popping up, and i also wondered why no-one was recommending the fans that came out top in spcr's review.

Is this what SPCR refer to as a the 'wrong' kind of noise?

No, the noise is very simple for this one, the bearings click, and i think the noise level of that clicking actually varies quite a bit between days.
I'm never sure if i should recommend it because you have to run it at 5v or less for a decent noise level, and at that speed it doesn't move much air although it does more more air than most other fans at 5v.

Do, you might be pleasantly surprised. But I would try the Arctic Cooling ones first - must more airflow for half the money and less noisy (by my aged ears).

I'm concerned that the arctic cooling ones will perform badly with pressure, if i use one with even a very unrestrictive grill i'm worried that most of the air will end up being blown out of the side. Have you found this to be a problem with them?

WJA96 · 6 Dec 2006 at 16:05

Joe42 said:
You can't expect them.... ...other fans at 5v.

I haven't quoted everything you wrote because in all honesty I don't there much difference between our points of view.

I will hold to my position that I think SPCR are too close to Antec for their own good, but that's just me.

Joe42 said:
I'm concerned that the arctic cooling ones will perform badly with pressure, if i use one with even a very unrestrictive grill i'm worried that most of the air will end up being blown out of the side. Have you found this to be a problem with them?

Actually no - they just seem to work really well and very, very quietly. If you like I'll send you one to test if you'll send it back afterwards? My e-mail is in trust.

Joe42 · 6 Dec 2006 at 16:37

I'll buy one, i've bought a fair few rubbishy fans in the past so i've no qualms with buying some that are likely to be good.

Thanks for the offer though.

I do understand your concerns with the Antec - spcr relationship but i don't think there is any corruption going on at all, for the reasons i've mentioned above.

I have been thinking recently if using the sound recording properties of youtube it would be possible to make a fan self review system.
You could use a calibration sound which asks people to set their speakers such that the noise is just audible, and then have a series of fan noises at different noise levels and people can compare their fans to these noises and determine the noise level. If it worked that would allow anyone with a good ear to review a fan.