Vista Crippled By Content Protection
- Thread starter Kaiju
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Meh, I think it's old news. Anti-DRM zealots will continue to brood and hate MS whilst MS apologists proclaim it the wave of the future.
Soldato
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Its not just about annoy MS its also about annoying copy right RIAA and having a challenge to break, workaround ect.
At the moment its all getting to silly.
At the moment its all getting to silly.
Soldato
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I don't like the sound of the CPU usage to check underlying hardware. I want less CPU cycles going to the system, I want more to games, FS-X needs every mhz it can get as it is 
MS possibly screws it up again.
MS possibly screws it up again.
Lets pretend for a moment that Apple or Linux were first with a major OS release that supported HD-DVD or BD playback. How would they implement the (enforced) requirements of copy protection differently?
Sadly this all seems a reflection on the movie studios obsession with protecting their content rather than MS "messing up again".
Yes, the cost will all be passed on to the consumer and no doubt "workarounds" will appear over time.
Some of the bits about degraded video output and SPDIF signals being disabled are nothing new whatsoever and all part of current consumer hardware devices. For example, I have a universal Denon DVD player and when I playback DVDA or SACD disks, the SPDIF output turns off but works OK with standard CDs and DD/DTS streams. I can transmit ALL signals digitally via the firewire connector to my AV amp which is encrypted but this is a feature only found on the more expensive kit.
Similarly, the component video outputs switch off when I select the upscaled video output. You could argue that this is OTT because it isn't a native HD source, only upscaled from SD but that is what happens. Only the DVI/HDCP ouput is enabled with upscaled video.
I also have a standalone SACD player and there are no digital outputs when playing SACD disks - only analogue.
The same goes for HDMI devices so that both player and display are both expected to be compliant or else it's a blank screen or degraded SD quality.
And now it's all coming to a PC near you! But, I don' t think the finger should be entirely pointed at MS as they have to enforce the licensing requirments of the content providers. Alternatively the could have told them that they were not going to incorporate HDDVD playback and see if they backed down !
Sadly this all seems a reflection on the movie studios obsession with protecting their content rather than MS "messing up again".
Yes, the cost will all be passed on to the consumer and no doubt "workarounds" will appear over time.
Some of the bits about degraded video output and SPDIF signals being disabled are nothing new whatsoever and all part of current consumer hardware devices. For example, I have a universal Denon DVD player and when I playback DVDA or SACD disks, the SPDIF output turns off but works OK with standard CDs and DD/DTS streams. I can transmit ALL signals digitally via the firewire connector to my AV amp which is encrypted but this is a feature only found on the more expensive kit.
Similarly, the component video outputs switch off when I select the upscaled video output. You could argue that this is OTT because it isn't a native HD source, only upscaled from SD but that is what happens. Only the DVI/HDCP ouput is enabled with upscaled video.
I also have a standalone SACD player and there are no digital outputs when playing SACD disks - only analogue.
The same goes for HDMI devices so that both player and display are both expected to be compliant or else it's a blank screen or degraded SD quality.
And now it's all coming to a PC near you! But, I don' t think the finger should be entirely pointed at MS as they have to enforce the licensing requirments of the content providers. Alternatively the could have told them that they were not going to incorporate HDDVD playback and see if they backed down !
Soldato
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Apple wouldn't be so silly as to disable outputs and hardware because a HD DVD is being played. MS shouldn't be either.
I paid for the DVD, I paid for the system I paid for the hardware. It does what I WANT, not some ******* company wants.
Waste of time and money, Im still willing to bet when I get my hands on Vista there will be issues which could have been avoided/solved if so much time hadn't been used to do this DRM ****.
*hugs OS X*
I paid for the DVD, I paid for the system I paid for the hardware. It does what I WANT, not some ******* company wants.
Waste of time and money, Im still willing to bet when I get my hands on Vista there will be issues which could have been avoided/solved if so much time hadn't been used to do this DRM ****.
*hugs OS X*
But its not MS choice to make if they want to have HD playback. The mistake they are making is bowing to the movie studios insistence.
I just don't see how Apple could do much different except perhaps on an iMac where the display device is built in. We will have to wait and see! Outputs would only be degraded/disabled if there was a non compliant compenent in the chain. Are Apple's own monitors HDCP complaint? That would be interesting to see how they got around it if they are not.
Sadly, with new HD formats it is not necessarily what YOU or I want at all. I do agree with you though that I don't like DRM and when I buy a disk I expect to be able to do what I like with it. I had hoped that all that would be necessary was that the video card and display had to be HDCP compliant and that would be enough. The problem I guess is that the decrypting software and drivers are so open to attack in a PC and thats why all this is coming about.
You know it is also possible that this is just another of those big storms in a teacup that comes before every MS release.
I just don't see how Apple could do much different except perhaps on an iMac where the display device is built in. We will have to wait and see! Outputs would only be degraded/disabled if there was a non compliant compenent in the chain. Are Apple's own monitors HDCP complaint? That would be interesting to see how they got around it if they are not.
Sadly, with new HD formats it is not necessarily what YOU or I want at all. I do agree with you though that I don't like DRM and when I buy a disk I expect to be able to do what I like with it. I had hoped that all that would be necessary was that the video card and display had to be HDCP compliant and that would be enough. The problem I guess is that the decrypting software and drivers are so open to attack in a PC and thats why all this is coming about.
You know it is also possible that this is just another of those big storms in a teacup that comes before every MS release.
Everything Microsoft has implemented in Vista is part of the HD DRM specification. Unless it passes every criteria then Microsoft won't get the license to distribute Vista with HD support.
Apple is not immune and is working on identical DRM mechanisms for its OSX.
Linux probably won't ever get ratified HD support because its licensing policy conflicts with the HD DRM specification.
Apple is not immune and is working on identical DRM mechanisms for its OSX.
Linux probably won't ever get ratified HD support because its licensing policy conflicts with the HD DRM specification.
Not to mention there is already one vulnerable hd player out there which is it possible to extract the AACS keys from. The industry should really stop this lock in, its hardly fair to lock someone to a platform.
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Microsoft either implement the specification - which includes disabling outputs - or protected HD content won't work. This isn't about Microsoft being evil - if you don't like the sound of it, don't use any media protected with DRM. Vista is implementing a standard, not coming up with anything new here.
wont make any difference. People who remain legit will simply buy and use the right media and equipment. No problems.
People who download wont have a problem because it will be ripped into some sort of avi file and wont have any data protection embedded.
The only people it will annoy is us intermediate people which don't wont to fork out on everything, but generally stay legit.
People who download wont have a problem because it will be ripped into some sort of avi file and wont have any data protection embedded.
The only people it will annoy is us intermediate people which don't wont to fork out on everything, but generally stay legit.
If they didn't implement this feature then the controllers of HDTV where going to refuse to let microsft use software which could playback HD media. So it's not really Microsoft's fault.PinkPig said:
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To me that's not the issue. MY computer is MY computer and I shouldn't have to have to jump through hoops to watch MY movie that I just bought. One shouldn't have to cheat or break EULAs just to use his computer. Restrictive DRM is about taking away the rights of the consumer and placing them in the hands of the content producers.Wayn0r said:
I suppose I might be one of those zealots I mentioned above but I am firm in the belief that the software I use should help me do what I want to do, not hamper me.
If people are prepared to watch DVD rips converted into DIVX, VCD or even filmed by camcorder in a cinema, why do the movie companies feel that down sampling HD-DVD to slightly less than DVD quality (when the chain of trust is broken) is going to be any deterrent.
The movie studio's could drastically reduce piracy if they released the DVD/HD-DVD at the same time as the film is released in the cinema's. They would also need to release the film in all countries at the same time as well.
Otherwise there will always be a market for pirates (or the internet) to satisfy the customers who don't want to visit a cinema to watch the latest film. (Or why not be able to purchase a latest release via your cable/sky box?)
I remember when movies were only released to VHS after about 4 years they were shown in the cinema. When they were made available they cost a small fortune. I remember a friend of mine in school whose father used to get a lot of pirated VHS movies and the quality was very poor, yet this was the only way to watch ET at home! And the poor quality was only a deterrent if the film was completely unwatchable. (and it took a lot to be unwatchable...)
Music Piracy and Movies Piracy is the fault of the film and music industry for trying to protect its vested interests in its vertical markets. (Their music shops, cinemas, and distribution companies make a tidy profit, and this is the reason why they charge you £12 for an album... They own the complete chain... Production, Marketing, Distribution, Retail.... Each taking its cut, each cut going back to same company - Generally speking, as there is competition between the big 4 music companies!!!)
They are not giving the customer what they want. And are being punished for that mistake. Suing your customers for getting you business model wrong.... Mindless. I have nothing but contempt for the music/film company fat cats. Why should a Queen or a Doors album from 1978 still cost £13? Make it available online for £1. And when I buy it, give me the option of mailing out the inlay and CD case for an additional £2. You bet...
In fact the record companies should accept there is going to be piracy (at some level) and setup a website where you could buy legit CD/Inlay cases to go with your p2p MP3's. Could be a good money earner for them. At least they get something back, and its not a complete lost cause. And best for them, they probably wont have to pay a penny to the artist for sending out a n inlay, unlike if they sent out a CD.
But back on topic and nearing the end of my massive rant. They are completely clueless. Now is the time to buy shares in the company that makes those HDMI cables.
The movie studio's could drastically reduce piracy if they released the DVD/HD-DVD at the same time as the film is released in the cinema's. They would also need to release the film in all countries at the same time as well.
Otherwise there will always be a market for pirates (or the internet) to satisfy the customers who don't want to visit a cinema to watch the latest film. (Or why not be able to purchase a latest release via your cable/sky box?)
I remember when movies were only released to VHS after about 4 years they were shown in the cinema. When they were made available they cost a small fortune. I remember a friend of mine in school whose father used to get a lot of pirated VHS movies and the quality was very poor, yet this was the only way to watch ET at home! And the poor quality was only a deterrent if the film was completely unwatchable. (and it took a lot to be unwatchable...)
Music Piracy and Movies Piracy is the fault of the film and music industry for trying to protect its vested interests in its vertical markets. (Their music shops, cinemas, and distribution companies make a tidy profit, and this is the reason why they charge you £12 for an album... They own the complete chain... Production, Marketing, Distribution, Retail.... Each taking its cut, each cut going back to same company - Generally speking, as there is competition between the big 4 music companies!!!)
They are not giving the customer what they want. And are being punished for that mistake. Suing your customers for getting you business model wrong.... Mindless. I have nothing but contempt for the music/film company fat cats. Why should a Queen or a Doors album from 1978 still cost £13? Make it available online for £1. And when I buy it, give me the option of mailing out the inlay and CD case for an additional £2. You bet...
In fact the record companies should accept there is going to be piracy (at some level) and setup a website where you could buy legit CD/Inlay cases to go with your p2p MP3's. Could be a good money earner for them. At least they get something back, and its not a complete lost cause. And best for them, they probably wont have to pay a penny to the artist for sending out a n inlay, unlike if they sent out a CD.
But back on topic and nearing the end of my massive rant. They are completely clueless. Now is the time to buy shares in the company that makes those HDMI cables.
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