Sooo i bought a GTX 280 when i already had a 9800GX2, pretty crazy you might think... but when you have a 2560x1600 res monitor the GX2 is an uber turd, due to the memory issues below. Even with 1920x1200 it sometimes does not cut it.
This post is about the stuff you dont see in reviews with performance numbers and charts... and i highly recommend you take a moment to read this if you have a 1920x1200 or higher res monitor, and are thinking of getting a 512MB graphics card. Plus it took ages to do all this!
But firstly heres my two cards:
The GTX 280 is considerably lighter than the GX2.
Things worth mentioning about the 280 with it's 1GB Memory over a GX2 and other 512MB usable VRAM cards
> Certain games now have quicker loading times, especially Unreal Engine 3 based games (like Mass Effect, about 50% faster loading)
> More complex games with high res textures have less random paulsing, from things caused by hard drive paging and so on (Oblivion, Mass Effect, Crysis and so on...)
> With 280/1GB cards texture heavy games with AA/AF applied at very high resolutions do not run in to the 512MB memory limit, and/or 256-Bit bus bandwidth issues - which cripples frame rates severely.
> Even though my 3D vantage scores have only increased slightly on the standard Performance setting (big increase on Extreme, see below), some scenes in the first two big tests of the benchmark - Jane Nash, and New Calico - clearly run better in areas, some areas are run at almost double the frame rate.
The GX2 might also have 1GB, but only 512MB is usable for games because of how SLI works, but i'm sure most of you already know this.
Because of these memory issues with the GX2's 512MB usable VRAM over a 256-Bit memory bus with GDDR3, high res gaming is not a good idea! See the below tests to see why in more detail. If possible stay away from GX2 or any other 512MB cards with monitors of 1920x1200 res and higher. I'd like to make it clear that this issue is not GX2 specific, or has anything to do with SLI, it will be exactly the same with any other cards that have 512MB VRAM, regardless of setup.
The GX2 is just a good example to be using here for these tests, as it has around equal GPU power to the GTX 280 so should be getting around the same frame rates at high res, but is completely let down by the amount of usable memory.
A comparison of games at high res between the two cards:
These are my own tests. The GX2 should be able to run all these games just as good as the 280, as it has the GPU power, but the memory issues cripple it in all the following tests....
When you run into this memory problem you can normally easily tell, as you go from great frames per-second to unplayable or total slideshow.
2560x1600 tests
Enermy Territory: Quake Wars
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = unplayable, nearly smooth but not quite, random paulses because of not enough VRAM for the res plus the large textures used.
GTX 280 = Playable with 4X AA + 16x AF
GRID
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = Complete slideshow, single digit FPS, even on the menu screens.
GTX 280 : Playable with 4x AA + 16AF
Unreal Tournament 3
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = Unplayable, and with any AA/AF turned on even the menu screen is a slide show
GTX 280 : Playable with 2x AA + 16x AF
Mass Effect
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = Completely unplayable
GTX 280 = Playable with 2x AA + 16x AF
Oblivion + High res texture mods
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = Unplayable (under 30FPS), random stuttering, especially in open areas.
GTX 280 = Playable with 2x AA + 16x AF
COD 4
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = Playable with no AA, 4x AF (but has a few rare micro stutters here and there, but nothing big)
GTX 280 = Playable with 4x AA + 16x AF
Source Engine based games
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 :
Portal = Playable with 2x AA + 16x AF
Team Fortress 2 = Playable with 2x AA + 8x AF
CS:S = Playable with 4x AA + 16x AF
HL2 : EP2 = Playable with 2x AA + 8x AF
Dreamfall: TLJ = Playable with 4x AA + 16x AF
GTX 280 :
Portal = Playable with 8x AA + 16x AF
Team Fortress 2 = Playable with 16x AA + 16x AF
CS:S = Playable with 16x AA + 16x AF + SuperSampling
HL2 : EP2 = Playable with 8x AA + 16x AF
Dreamfall: TLJ = Playable with 16x AA + 16x AF + SuperSampling
1920x1200 resolution game tests
On this res the 512MB limit is not as severe, with games out at the moment you will need to have AA and AF turned on to run in to this problem.
GRID
1920x1200 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GTX = Playable with 2x AA + 16x AF
GTX 280 = Playable with 4x or 16x AA + 16x AF
Mass Effect
1920x1200 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GTX = Playable with 16x AF
GTX 280 = Playbale with 4x or 16x AA + 16x AF
Some other games where the 512MB limit kicks in at 1920x1200 and you enter the realm of the Slide Show, are:
UT3
Oblivion + High res texture mods
GRID
Bioshock
Crysis (although it's harder to tell with this game as it already cripples the GPU with AA at this res anyway)
- AA/AF needs to be enabled (for now) at this res to run in to the problem, i've not played a game so far where it will do this unless atleast 2x AA + 16x AF is enabled @ 1920x1200.
Other stuff
3D Mark Vantage : 'Extreme' setting
(Extreme is 1920x1200 res)
9800GX2 : Score = 3295
GTX 280 : Score = 5410
Nvidia's GTX 200 series Medusa Demo
(This demo makes use of the 280's and 260's extra memory)
1650x1080 + maxed out settings + 4x AA
9800GX2 = Average of around 15 FPS
GTX 280 = Average of over 30 FPS
Conclusion:
Basically if you have a 1920x1200 res monitor or higher, and/or like to have AA/AF enabled on higher res, then stay away from the 9800GX2!! Or any other 512MB cards, especially ones with a 256-Bit memory bus - unless they use GDDR5 on a 256-Bit bus. 512MB does not cut it these days for high res monitors, and it will only continue to get worse with newer games, until it starts effecting 1600x1200 / 1650x1080 resolutions and so on.
This is something that very few reviews mention, and if i had known about this before i would not of bothered with GX2 with my monitor
> All these test were done myself on 2 different installs of Vista Ultimate 64-Bit - both on the same system (in my sig).
> The GX2 tests were done using many drivers over the period of months, all these different drivers done very little or nothing to improve these memory issues.
A funny thing worth mentioning is that with the GX2, when not in SLI mode and gaming at high res, it will still run most new games almost as well as when it is in SLI, because once you hit this 512MB memory limit, enabling SLI has no effect on performance at all.
This post is about the stuff you dont see in reviews with performance numbers and charts... and i highly recommend you take a moment to read this if you have a 1920x1200 or higher res monitor, and are thinking of getting a 512MB graphics card. Plus it took ages to do all this!
But firstly heres my two cards:
The GTX 280 is considerably lighter than the GX2.
Things worth mentioning about the 280 with it's 1GB Memory over a GX2 and other 512MB usable VRAM cards
> Certain games now have quicker loading times, especially Unreal Engine 3 based games (like Mass Effect, about 50% faster loading)
> More complex games with high res textures have less random paulsing, from things caused by hard drive paging and so on (Oblivion, Mass Effect, Crysis and so on...)
> With 280/1GB cards texture heavy games with AA/AF applied at very high resolutions do not run in to the 512MB memory limit, and/or 256-Bit bus bandwidth issues - which cripples frame rates severely.
> Even though my 3D vantage scores have only increased slightly on the standard Performance setting (big increase on Extreme, see below), some scenes in the first two big tests of the benchmark - Jane Nash, and New Calico - clearly run better in areas, some areas are run at almost double the frame rate.
The GX2 might also have 1GB, but only 512MB is usable for games because of how SLI works, but i'm sure most of you already know this.
Because of these memory issues with the GX2's 512MB usable VRAM over a 256-Bit memory bus with GDDR3, high res gaming is not a good idea! See the below tests to see why in more detail. If possible stay away from GX2 or any other 512MB cards with monitors of 1920x1200 res and higher. I'd like to make it clear that this issue is not GX2 specific, or has anything to do with SLI, it will be exactly the same with any other cards that have 512MB VRAM, regardless of setup.
The GX2 is just a good example to be using here for these tests, as it has around equal GPU power to the GTX 280 so should be getting around the same frame rates at high res, but is completely let down by the amount of usable memory.
A comparison of games at high res between the two cards:
These are my own tests. The GX2 should be able to run all these games just as good as the 280, as it has the GPU power, but the memory issues cripple it in all the following tests....
When you run into this memory problem you can normally easily tell, as you go from great frames per-second to unplayable or total slideshow.
2560x1600 tests
Enermy Territory: Quake Wars
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = unplayable, nearly smooth but not quite, random paulses because of not enough VRAM for the res plus the large textures used.
GTX 280 = Playable with 4X AA + 16x AF
GRID
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = Complete slideshow, single digit FPS, even on the menu screens.
GTX 280 : Playable with 4x AA + 16AF
Unreal Tournament 3
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = Unplayable, and with any AA/AF turned on even the menu screen is a slide show
GTX 280 : Playable with 2x AA + 16x AF
Mass Effect
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = Completely unplayable
GTX 280 = Playable with 2x AA + 16x AF
Oblivion + High res texture mods
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = Unplayable (under 30FPS), random stuttering, especially in open areas.
GTX 280 = Playable with 2x AA + 16x AF
COD 4
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 = Playable with no AA, 4x AF (but has a few rare micro stutters here and there, but nothing big)
GTX 280 = Playable with 4x AA + 16x AF
Source Engine based games
2560x1600 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GX2 :
Portal = Playable with 2x AA + 16x AF
Team Fortress 2 = Playable with 2x AA + 8x AF
CS:S = Playable with 4x AA + 16x AF
HL2 : EP2 = Playable with 2x AA + 8x AF
Dreamfall: TLJ = Playable with 4x AA + 16x AF
GTX 280 :
Portal = Playable with 8x AA + 16x AF
Team Fortress 2 = Playable with 16x AA + 16x AF
CS:S = Playable with 16x AA + 16x AF + SuperSampling
HL2 : EP2 = Playable with 8x AA + 16x AF
Dreamfall: TLJ = Playable with 16x AA + 16x AF + SuperSampling
1920x1200 resolution game tests
On this res the 512MB limit is not as severe, with games out at the moment you will need to have AA and AF turned on to run in to this problem.
GRID
1920x1200 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GTX = Playable with 2x AA + 16x AF
GTX 280 = Playable with 4x or 16x AA + 16x AF
Mass Effect
1920x1200 + maxed out settings + Vsync
9800GTX = Playable with 16x AF
GTX 280 = Playbale with 4x or 16x AA + 16x AF
Some other games where the 512MB limit kicks in at 1920x1200 and you enter the realm of the Slide Show, are:
UT3
Oblivion + High res texture mods
GRID
Bioshock
Crysis (although it's harder to tell with this game as it already cripples the GPU with AA at this res anyway)
- AA/AF needs to be enabled (for now) at this res to run in to the problem, i've not played a game so far where it will do this unless atleast 2x AA + 16x AF is enabled @ 1920x1200.
Other stuff
3D Mark Vantage : 'Extreme' setting
(Extreme is 1920x1200 res)
9800GX2 : Score = 3295
GTX 280 : Score = 5410
Nvidia's GTX 200 series Medusa Demo
(This demo makes use of the 280's and 260's extra memory)
1650x1080 + maxed out settings + 4x AA
9800GX2 = Average of around 15 FPS
GTX 280 = Average of over 30 FPS
Conclusion:
Basically if you have a 1920x1200 res monitor or higher, and/or like to have AA/AF enabled on higher res, then stay away from the 9800GX2!! Or any other 512MB cards, especially ones with a 256-Bit memory bus - unless they use GDDR5 on a 256-Bit bus. 512MB does not cut it these days for high res monitors, and it will only continue to get worse with newer games, until it starts effecting 1600x1200 / 1650x1080 resolutions and so on.
This is something that very few reviews mention, and if i had known about this before i would not of bothered with GX2 with my monitor
> All these test were done myself on 2 different installs of Vista Ultimate 64-Bit - both on the same system (in my sig).
> The GX2 tests were done using many drivers over the period of months, all these different drivers done very little or nothing to improve these memory issues.
A funny thing worth mentioning is that with the GX2, when not in SLI mode and gaming at high res, it will still run most new games almost as well as when it is in SLI, because once you hit this 512MB memory limit, enabling SLI has no effect on performance at all.
Last edited:
Which is vastly superior to a 9800GX2 due to memory bandwidth. If your gaming at high res and in my case it is the same 2560*1600 and you start adding AA then your memory usage will go through the roof. With only 512mb to use the gpu can't buffer as much which slows things down. (Yes I am talking in very simplistic terms and I am sure people can explain it better).
if only you could upgrade brain memory...