Starter WaterKits V's Modern Air Pipe Coolers for Noise and performance.

Ice Tea · 30 Jul 2008 at 09:07

http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3097&p=1

A intresting read that basically backs up with benchmarks what people have been saying for ages that modern Air coolers beat Basic watercooling for temps and the myth that watercooling is silent.

Pneumonic · 30 Jul 2008 at 09:57

yup nice review over there and backs up a lot of what people experience on the forum... havent had time for a full read just a quick look at the graphs... would be nice to know what fans they were using on the TRU and TRUE

BEn_2600+ · 30 Jul 2008 at 10:00

A review that uses watercooling kits :rolleyes:

Ice Tea · 30 Jul 2008 at 10:04

BEn_2600+ said:
A review that uses watercooling kits

Wouldn't a review about watercooling kits use watercooling kits ? :confused:

Pneumonic · 30 Jul 2008 at 10:04

yes well thats the point isnt it... no point buying a low-mid end "kit" when air cooling does the job just as well.. ofc if you go out and spend £250 on a custom water cooling setup it will be better but the whole of point of the review is... if you arent prepaired to spend £££ on custom water.. go high end air that is cheaper and performs just as well if not better..

Edit: and again if you spend £250 on an Air Cooling setup then I am pretty certain it will perform on a par with high end water but we will have to wait a few days on that one.. will be fun finding out at an rate

Cob · 30 Jul 2008 at 12:46

Tbh we knew those two kits are no better than high-end air anyway.

And you don't need to spend big £££ for good watercooling. My kit cost less than £100 and it's kept highly-clocked quads cool without any issues.

Arthalen · 30 Jul 2008 at 12:53

Cob said:
Tbh we knew those two kits are no better than high-end air anyway.

And you don't need to spend big £££ for good watercooling. My kit cost less than £100 and it's kept highly-clocked quads cool without any issues.

I'd be interested to know what that kit consists of for under £100 and what speed/temps ya getting out of a Quad, Cob!

Cob · 30 Jul 2008 at 13:07

X2O Compact 400 pump/res combo - ~£30
Alphacool NexXxoS Xtreme II 240mm - ~£25
D-Tek Fuzion - ~£40 (tho I paid £25 for mine from the Members Market).

B3 Q6600 @ 3.5ghz -

G0 Q6600 @ 3.8ghz -

Q9450 @ 4ghz -

And that's all on 11/8mm tubing.

Pneumonic · 30 Jul 2008 at 13:16

you would have got similar temps on the G0 Q6600 at that voltage with high end air i would imagine... would have been louder

but would have been 1/2 the price... not saying that a custom water cooling kit for £100 is bad as it obviously isnt but I dont think it would outperform high end air which would cost less..

shadowscotland · 30 Jul 2008 at 13:28

Totally agree with cob - if just cooling CPU a very good single loop / double rad combo will easily cool an oc'ed quad for under a £100.
(but that's still more £ that quality air cooling)

It's only when high preformance GPU are inclueded or have own loop it starts getting expensive.

As to tube size makes next to no differance on single block loops (unless using passive rads like me

)

Edit: off to read arctical to tell me what I already know

1kiwi · 30 Jul 2008 at 13:45

The worthy test subjects for examining these water cooling "truths" are the Corsair Nautilus 500 external water cooling system and the Swiftech H2O-120 Compact. Both these water cooling systems are also the beneficiaries of the evolutionary development of water cooling since they both combine top water cooling components in simpler to install water cooling kits.

Since when has the Swifttech kit being associated with Top components?

Cob · 30 Jul 2008 at 13:52

Pneumonic said:
you would have got similar temps on the G0 Q6600 at that voltage with high end air i would imagine... would have been louder but would have been 1/2 the price... not saying that a custom water cooling kit for £100 is bad as it obviously isnt but I dont think it would outperform high end air which would cost less..

Maybe you could get similar temps with your Deltas, but I've yet to see a B3 Q6600 at 3.5ghz on air, or a Q9450 at 4ghz on air. And IMO that's because decent temps can't be maintained on air with settings like that without resorting to the likes of Deltas.

The B3 shot actually has the northbridge in the loop too, and about a month later I added an X1900XTX too, and that system folded 24/7 for three months til I sold the B3 before their resale values plummeted.

If you have £250 to spend on watercooling then go on ahead and spend it. But the idea that you need to spend a fortune to make watercooling worthwhile is just a myth, mostly spread by those that have spent a fortune on their set-up.

1kiwi · 30 Jul 2008 at 14:05

Cob - what were your ambients like when you recorded those temps? I assume it wasn't summer?

Cob · 30 Jul 2008 at 14:13

Haven't a clue about the ambients, tho they were run in mid September, late April and late June, so certainly not at a cold time of the year.

Pneumonic · 30 Jul 2008 at 14:24

Cob said:
Maybe you could get similar temps with your Deltas, but I've yet to see a B3 Q6600 at 3.5ghz on air, or a Q9450 at 4ghz on air. And IMO that's because decent temps can't be maintained on air with settings like that without resorting to the likes of Deltas.

The B3 shot actually has the northbridge in the loop too, and about a month later I added an X1900XTX too, and that system folded 24/7 for three months til I sold the B3 before their resale values plummeted.

If you have £250 to spend on watercooling then go on ahead and spend it. But the idea that you need to spend a fortune to make watercooling worthwhile is just a myth, mostly spread by those that have spent a fortune on their set-up.

I completley agree that the air setup would be louder

but thats why your paying twice the price for a custom water kit

and I also agree with you that spending a fortune on an water setup is probably a waste..

but then I have to stick up for us air guys and the whole notion that high end air is worse than low end water... the quote that comes to mind "water starts where high end air finishes" which is total rubbish

Cob · 30 Jul 2008 at 14:40

God yeah.

Most of the bottom-end watercooling kits are crap. But spending a small amount more on a custom kit gives far better results. Spending £80 on the Swiftech H2O 120 kit is nuts when you can get far better results for maybe another £20.

The difference between high-end air (and no I'm not talking about running Deltas) and my £100 custom kit is far more than the difference between my kit and a custom £250 kit.

1kiwi · 30 Jul 2008 at 14:58

Cob said:
The difference between high-end air (and no I'm not talking about running Deltas) and my £100 custom kit is far more than the difference between my kit and a custom £250 kit.

Its like that with everything though. Thats why the Q6600 is so popular. Otherwise we would all have 9650's.

Pneumonic · 30 Jul 2008 at 15:16

Cob said:
God yeah.

Most of the bottom-end watercooling kits are crap. But spending a small amount more on a custom kit gives far better results. Spending £80 on the Swiftech H2O 120 kit is nuts when you can get far better results for maybe another £20.

The difference between high-end air (and no I'm not talking about running Deltas) and my £100 custom kit is far more than the difference between my kit and a custom £250 kit.

no reason Delta's need to be insane though... thats the point people buy the wrong models.. or dont controll them properly, mine run happly off my motherboard 3pin connectors and at low RPM are silent (well quiter than my HDD)... I agree at constant sustained high load my system will be louder but then unless you run 100% load 24/7, i.e. folding (and i can fold 24/7 @ 3.725 and not be silent but not loud!).. then the delta's will be no louder than any other "normal" system

shadowscotland · 30 Jul 2008 at 17:27

Pneumonic said:
no reason Delta's need to be insane though... that’s the point people buy the wrong models.. or don’t control them properly, mine run happily off my motherboard 3pin connectors and at low RPM are silent (well quieter than my HDD)

That is a very impressive statement to make!

As I would argue all fans are noisy as are moving HHD (especially raptor in normal drive bays) but I know I’m being subjective and championing my own cooling bias with that statement

I would also guess that the specific delta model you chose and the 'controls' used add to the cost of your high end custom air cooling solution, but still 15-25% less that cob’s £100 loop with similar temp performance (but higher dB).

But I would say that many here would agree high end air-cooling always exceed poorly designed water-cooling loops and probable most kits.

I applaud you Pneumonic for championing high-end air, if money/max OC ratio was the only factor air-cooling wins hands down in every price bracket.

But ambient noise level, peer pressure, cool factor, usage, WAF (wife acceptance factor) and personal noise acceptance all play their part.

I’d say that you and me both champion a niche element of cooling (extreme air, and passive water respectively) and many mainstream users have much to gain from our experiences, but we’ll not get many coverts.

Cob as an accomplished oc’er in his own right takes a more balanced (and 24/7 liveable) view, using watercooling on cpu/gpu/NB, aircooling on psu and (assisted) passive cooling on SB, MosFet and HHD

It's just a shame you can't see quiet, near silence and dead of night silent in a photo or benchmark.

Arthalen · 30 Jul 2008 at 17:46

I myself have gone all over the shop with different cooling setups. I've even owned the much famously snooped at Thermaltake Big Water SE Kit, and also had a full on custom loop costing near too £300 once all was said and done. I've also done the full range of Air cooling setups, having owned such golden coolers as the original thermaltake big typhoon, A Titan Vanessa, a Tuniq tower, a Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme, even tried the Titan Amanda TEC once upon a time.

However, my last major change was when I dropped down from a full on Thermochill PA120.3 Rad based system to just a TRUE and have to admit, the TRUE did me wonderfully proud on my old OC'd Q6600.

My own firm opinion is that unless you get to £150+ portion of Watercooling for the performance benefit, or you want the silence option of extremely quiet water cooling, then to stick with a decent high end Air cooler.

This is why I was prompted to ask Cob about his £100 W/C setup. I was intrigued as to how he managed to get a decent setup for that price.

I then cross referenced against the Quad database, and to be honest, the TRUE really does win hands down for performance versus cost. Even against Cob's W/C setup.

My reverse opinion says though, that if I wanted watercooling for the silence AND performance, I really wouldn't bother than going with something more than what Cob has specced!