The CKD diet (like the Atkins Diet but with carbs)

Ok,

I know there have been a few threads here about the Keto diets and although there have been some great posts in them I would like to get some info together including what is good to eat which is what I am having problems getting together. All the other places I have read are very general with food advice.

Dark_Shadow has had some great results with the Keto diet and has suggested I look in to it.

Ok so to start from the begining....... CKD (Cyclic Keto Diet) is a variation of the Keto diet which has been used for a number of years to help control epilepsy in children. The diet also helps with fat loss by getting the body to weitch to burning fat as it's primary source of fuel rather than carbs. The difficult part is getting the body to switch by reducing the carb intake to a point where it has no choice and putting up with the bodies complaints while that happens. The cyclic comes in to play as you load up on carbs during the 12-18 hour session (usually at the weekend) in order to help maintain muscle mass whilst loosing weight, one thing the Atkins diet is criticised for failing to do.

There are a couple of excellent primers here (bodybuilding.com) and here (musclenet.com).

There is also a great post from drunkenmaster here.

Now I am sure I am not the first to be very weary of a diet that tells you to eat lots of fat and get skinnier, but it seems that htere is lots of evidence to show this diet works if you stick to it correctly.

So what can you eat. For me I get;


Lean body weight in lbs = protein grams intake (*4 = calories)
Total body weight *15 = Maintenance calorific requirement
Maintenance calorific requirement - protein calories = fat calories required (/9 = fat grams)

So 225lbs (168lbs lean)
168g protein = 168 * 4 = 672 calories from protein
224lbs * 15 = 3360calories for maintenance.
500 Calorie defecit / day = 2860 calories required per day
2860 calories - 672 protein calories = 1428 calories required from fats
1428 calories = 159g fat per day.

So;
For Sunday -> Friday lunch
168g of protein / day
159g of fat / day

For Friday afternoon -> Saturday midnight
Protein stays the same
Fat must be under lean body weight in Kg (76.3)
10-12g carbs / Kg of lean body weight (168 / 2.2 = 76.3)
76.3 * 11g = 839.3g carbs / day.

So;
168g of protein
< 76.3g of fat
839.3g of carbs

Now comes the tricky part. What to eat.

Well there is;

Grams Item Fat Protein Carb
100 Turkey 7 28.9 0
100 Cheddar 33.1 24.9 0
100 Beef 9.7 34.4 0
100 Ham 17.5 26.7 0
1 small egg 3.7 4.7 0.28
100 smoked salmon 4.3 18.3 0
small can Tuna 1.2 37.5 0
3*Rashers Bacon 16.95 13.95 0

I hear that you need to add some [FONT=&quot]fibrous [/FONT]veggies to help keep you 'regular' and get the vitamins in but most of the ones I have seen that I can get from the salad bar are pretty high in carbs (beetroot, bell pepper, sweetcorn, carrot, cucumber).

So my questions are;

What great foods can be added to the list (I will update the list above) ?
What foods are best for loading period ?
What is the best way to stop the diet without gaining weight ?

I will be linking this from my 'time to get fit' thread for future reference and will be keeping my results from this and the training in there.

Any info, answers to the above questions or reports of experiences (results, inital difficulties, techniques that worked for you) most welcome.

Thanks
RB

I don't see what the benefit of this restrictive diet is over just eating properly, and less, and doing more work Just be stricter with your normal diet instead of depriving yourself of the full range of nutrients? Why have you decided to do this particular diet?

Makunouchi said:

I don't see what the benefit of this restrictive diet is over just eating properly, and less, and doing more work Just be stricter with your normal diet instead of depriving yourself of the full range of nutrients? Why have you decided to do this particular diet?

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Personally I have read the good progress at weight loss over a reasonible short period of time and as I feel my weightloss with a low calorie diet is very slow, to the point that after the initial drop, there has been minimal loss.

Now sure my low cal diet has not been perfect but it has been significantly lower than my pre-'get fit' diet and the demands on my body have been ramped up with the extra exercise but still the weight is staying.

Maybe I am blind to the loss. There are a coupleof sets of progress photos in my fitness thread for others to view and make up their own minds.

I also have a holiday planned for the begining of Dec in Phuket and would like to walk down the beach without a bigish wobbly stomach. I don't expects a 6 pac or anything like that but it would be nice to jump up and down without having to wait an extra 2 secs for my body to stop wobbling .

By all accounts the CKD could help to drop the initial chunk of fat and then I would maintain with what I am doing now as I do not believe I am gaining on it, just staying more or less stationary.

Although not meant to be a diet thread, just as an idea.....
Wake up;
Water,
protein shake (23g protein, 2g carbs)
vits / fish oils

10am;
Oats / SS milk / handfull of raisins
Cup of tea

1pm;
Salad with 100g meat

4pm;
Two oat cookies with peanut butter
Cup of tea

8pm (post workout on gym days)
1 or 2 protein shakes

9:30;
Two tuna sandwiches (wholemeal bread, salad cream rather than mayo).

11:30;
1 extra shake if DOMS are evident.

This is of course an example. I also drink water throughout the day but could probabily drink more.

Cheers
RB

I havnt gone on a full on thought out Keto diet or anything, but I have had sucess just lowering my carbs.

I tend to do it in little shifts of a week or just a few days as it gets boring and found It makes me a little lethargic.

Like I said, I have never written it down and gone into much detail but I just make choices in my head which seemed reasonable.
Eg: eggs for breakfast
Maybe some Chicken and Salad for lunch.
Steak and veg for my evening meal and then maybe some cottage cheese a little later on before bed.
Throw in a bannana and apple or 2.

Well I think you could make improvements on that diet, without resorting to a specialised keto thing.

For a start, where are the veg? Veg fill you up and are very good for you, I eat a pack of fine green beans, half a head of broccoli and maybe half a tin of sweetcorn and half a tin of peas, every day - keeps me feeling full, gives energy, very good for me - as far as I can see you are currently eating none of this?

Why not swap out the oats for a few scrambled eggs with some chopped up fresh tomatoes, and some green beans? You could also swap out the oat cookies for that tuna, but have it mixed in with some sweetcorn and cous cous? (If you eat that at work just have it in a tupperware container) Then for your dinner drop the bread and have a proper meal with some fish or something with more green veg. I also don't think there's any reason why someone trying to drop weight would be eating peanut butter, it's very calorie dense.

If all you're looking to do is lose weight and your work in the gym is only towards that aim, you're eating a lot of carbs, and apart from the meat salad, nothing I'd actually class as a 'meal'.

But I never comment on threads like this because diet is really dependent on the individual and what sort of diet you can actually cope with, and have time to stick to.

Thanks for the response Makunouchi. Feedback is always welcome.

Makunouchi said:

Well I think you could make improvements on that diet, without resorting to a specialised keto thing.

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For a start, where are the veg? Veg fill you up and are very good for you, I eat a pack of fine green beans, half a head of broccoli and maybe half a tin of sweetcorn and half a tin of peas, every day - keeps me feeling full, gives energy, very good for me - as far as I can see you are currently eating none of this?[/quote]

Yes, I agree that veg could be more in evidence and I like veg. It is the cooking for one in a family, and the available time. I finish work at 6pm, finish gym around 8pm, home for 9:30pm. Cooking dinner then is a bit of a PITA. Pasta with soup & chicken or tuna sandwiches is quick and easy.

I will try and get the peas and sweetcorn in to the mix more.

Makunouchi said:

Why not swap out the oats for a few scrambled eggs with some chopped up fresh tomatoes, and some green beans? You could also swap out the oat cookies for that tuna, but have it mixed in with some sweetcorn and cous cous? (If you eat that at work just have it in a tupperware container) Then for your dinner drop the bread and have a proper meal with some fish or something with more green veg. I also don't think there's any reason why someone trying to drop weight would be eating peanut butter, it's very calorie dense.

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My company allows me to chuck some oats in to the microwave and cook them but I think they would raise an eyebrow at me cooking scrambled eggs . I do tend to eat scrambled eggs quite a lot at the weekend though.

Bringing the tuna to work may be possible along with boiled eggs and some peas or sweetcorn, it is just getting the time to cook it with a busy family life (2 kids and a demanding wife . Of course I didn't say that )

The dinner for the evening is again down to time and the fact I am only cooking for one. The kids and my wife buy food court type meals.

The peanut butter is only preworkout and seems to help give a boost when at the gym.

Makunouchi said:

If all you're looking to do is lose weight and your work in the gym is only towards that aim, you're eating a lot of carbs, and apart from the meat salad, nothing I'd actually class as a 'meal'.

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I am building up a little but the carbs tend to be around the same volume or a bit higher than the protein. It is trying to find something to replace the carbs (breat / pasta / rice) here in Singapore that is practical.

Makunouchi said:

But I never comment on threads like this because diet is really dependent on the individual and what sort of diet you can actually cope with, and have time to stick to.

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Very true. No point if it is not practical to stick to. Thanks for commenting here though.

Cheers
RB

RimBlock said:

My company allows me to chuck some oats in to the microwave and cook them but I think they would raise an eyebrow at me cooking scrambled eggs


It is trying to find something to replace the carbs (breat / pasta / rice) here in Singapore that is practical.

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Ah, I didn't see your location, nice I've heard it's a bit of a struggle eating healthy in that part of the world, lots of fried/greasy food, lots of high carb stuff etc.

Like I said before, buying some Tupperware type containers and cooking either the night before, or at the weekend then freezing and then using the containers to take food into work, can let you eat pretty much a full proper balanced meal anywhere you are.

My post was a bit short as the boss appeared and wanted me to go through some work.

Anyway...since I wrote Makunouchi has given you the same advice that follows my own eating.

On days where I lower my carbs I will tend to eat more vegtables to fill in the gaps.
So instead of scrabled eggs and toast . id ditch the toast and have some mushrooms...that kind of thing.

My evening meal is nearly always like that anyway..i.e. some meat and a whole heap of steamed veg.

Im by no means running myself ragged but restricting my carbs like this and lifting the weights = me weighing in this morning at 11st 12lb down from 15st 2lb in march.

RimBlock said:

The dinner for the evening is again down to time and the fact I am only cooking for one. The kids and my wife buy food court type meals.

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Get the wife and kids on the good home cooked meals instead of food court meals as well, will only benefit them in the long run

blairw said:

Get the wife and kids on the good home cooked meals instead of food court meals as well, will only benefit them in the long run

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If only I could.

They are still convinced that food court or coffee shop food is cheaper and they like the food.

Hard to beat S$3.50 for a meal and have to cook / wash up on top of it. A lot of the Chinese food they eat (traditional not westernised) also take a lot of time to prepare correctly and my wife only really cooks rice porridge and instant noodles . My cooking skills are pretty limited as well usually based around pasta / tomato sauce and some meat. My wife and older son do not like tomato based pasta sauces and the white sauces are usually pretty unhealthy AFAIK.

Anyway, they are sometimes eating a bit more at home now but with cash being a bit tight, seeing a supermarket bill for S$100 or a food court bill for S$3.50, the food court bill wins every time regardless of the supermarket food lasting a number of days.....

Oh well.

RB