1000£+ spec - opinions needed.

[Varaxfire]

Hi everyone.

A couple of months ago I got a list for a rig put together by a much more experienced pc builder, however I put it on hold to purchase the completely new rig until now & some items surely need some upgrading now, I'm not sure.

The idea is for this to be a long-time investment, a strong gaming PC for new game titles the coming year. My budget can be greatly extended if necessary.

EDIT: I'm not sure if it's just my browser that refuses to show the image of the spec, but here is a thumbnail just in case.

I have my doubts about the mobo, if I need something better/different there. Also wondering if 1000W is too much for a PSU.

What OS would you guys recommend for gaming?

I'm open to any suggestions regarding this spec.

Maybe some recommendations on sound system & monitors as well. =)

 

[Glaucus]

Raptors are a waste of money.
get a 30 or 60gig SSD for windows/games and a larger normal hdd like the samsung f1 for your files and media.

get vista HP 64bit for the os.

that mobo is great.

What's with the ram?
get these instead
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showp...EVO ONE DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GE24GB1066C5DC)

I would get a Zalman psu instead
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showp...n ZM1000-HP Heatpipe Cooled 1000W Modular PSU

and a asus xoar souncard..

What's your budget?

 

[pingwing]

Raptors are awesome! (sorry i just like mine a lot)

Anyway, your wasting nearly £100 on ram! You can get basically the same ram (minus the ott heatspreader) for £40 http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-086-OC (or get the obligitory 8gig for less than the original ram by getting 2 kits of the one im recommending)

Secondly vista 64 is a must (as acidhell2 has already said) theres really not much debate about this, its new and very very good.

You also dont need a 1kw psu (especially at £150), a 625W psu would easily do (im looking at enermax psu's but there are some pretty well liked options out there...)

My final sugestion would be to get an asus xonar d2x (or d2) sound card as basically (i think) they are just better than anything creative's been doing for a bit (driver support too, along with fix's for bugs)

 

[Glaucus]

 

[Varaxfire]

Thanks for your response AcidHell2.

Well, if you check my basket again you'll notice that I've already selected an additional HDD (Samsung Spinpoint F1 - 1TB), the idea was the have the OS/Games on the VelociRaptor HDD. I see that the solid state harddrive costs a bit less than the velociraptor @ 60GB. However, that sounds like little space to have a number of games on including the OS. I will read up on those, seems interesting.

And thanks for the info on the PSU, I really just selected a random one there. =)

As to my budget, I could do something like 2000£ if necessary, going to get a monitor & sound system in addition to that, but those I might just buy locally. (Ordering this rig abroad.)

Edit: Okay I'll have a looksie at those soundcards, and thanks for pointing out those cheap RAM pingwing, 8gigs isn't overkill though?

 

[Glaucus]

60 gig should be more than enough for the os and games. I have several games and irt still only comes to 27gig.

 

[pingwing]

Ah i was just thinking for the future more than anything else (some day when 64bit becomes really popular apps will be wanting lots of ram) and at £10 a gig of ram you might as well have 8 gig (i did, and forsee this lasting me a very long time)

 

[gordan]

PSU: I can recommend the CoolerMaster M1000. It's had some of the best reviews WRT the cleanliness of the power output.

CPU: I'd go with the tried and tested Q6600. The problem with everything else is that it gets FSB bound, so your OC doesn't really get considerably better with a 45nm chip.

I'd skip the SSD and go with 2 normal disks in RAID1 instead if you value your data. Get 2 different disks, too, e.g. a 1TB Seagate and a 1TB Samsung. I have had the unfortunate experience of two disks in the same mirror set fail. They were same make/model/batch and consecutive serial numbers. I have also seen someone else report a similar experience on a forum recently, so it's not an isolated incident. Be safe. The chances of 2 disks from different manufacturers failing simultaneously is much, much smaller than 2 identical disks failing simultaneously. Two normal disks will also give you a higher throughput than a single SSD, although the SSD will win massively on access time - but how many times per day do you reboot? Once you've started your apps once, everything will be coming straight out of the cache in RAM with the amount of RAM you are speccing.

The RAM mentioned earlier is on the Asus QVL list, as is the G.Skill 4GB kit. Whatever you get, make sure it's QVL-ed. I learned that lesson the hard way. 4GB is plenty. 8GB is way over the top. Also, you're likely to get less speed/OC with 4 DIMMs compared to two (I also learned that the hard way).

The Asus P5E Deluxe already comes with HD Audio, so there's no need for a separate card.

Finally, I'd recommend 64-bit XP Pro instead of Vista.

For a monitor, the Dell and Samsung (both use the same Samsung TFT panel) 30in monitors are _awesome_ if you can afford one. But if you're planning to game at 2560x1600, you'll probably need a second 4870x2 to keep all those pixels shifting.

 

[Varaxfire]

Okay, this what I got so far:

Edit: think it bugged again -

Still undecided on the harddrive, got SSD listed there for now until I get some more information.

Couple of more questions:

Brand of of the 4870 X2, have any significance? Prices seem to wary with no more than 10£, and some have 2 or 1 year warranty. The descriptions are identical.

Fell in love with that Antec case long ago, the one you linked looks nice as well though, Acid.

Still undecided on the soundcard, but the creative one I had listed before gets scrapped.

The Asus P5E Deluxe Intel X48 you selected AcidHell2, is it better than the one I choose? Certainly is cheaper.

Oh, and lastly, is quad-core worth it versus a wolfdale dual-core? From what I've been told, very few games benefit from quad-core yet & the price difference is pretty significant. Will go with quad-core though, if it's worth it.

 

[EdGey]

il give it a shot

i specced this based on what you originally specced and just made a few changes to better it, but although an excelent spec, its not what id do in your position.

few points, although its what id do and perhaps not the best thing.

-Id get a GTX280 rather than the 4870x2.
-Id consider a quad core
-do you mind noise? raptors make a lot of it.(experience)
-Corsair 620 PSU is more than enough for that set up.

ofcorse ud need to add a an OS if needed.

edge

 

[Varaxfire]

I'd value super performance over both looks, and some unfortunate noise.

And there's no need to stick to my spec, I got quite a big budget but very limited experience with building PC rigs, so any suggestions are welcome, even if it's something completely different from what I originally put up. I read the sticky before I made this thread, but I don't have to limit myself at a 1250£ spec if need be.

I think I would need to spend a very long time reading about different products, to make a completely informed decision, before ordering the parts. Though, I'm anxious to finally get a strong machine to enjoy my gaming on, so I will probably not do that, and go with whatever suggestions that came through this thread in a few days time when the spec is molded into a nice monster rig. =)

 

[Duran]

why the x48 board? are you planning to crossfire? got that asus xonar sound card, unfortunately didnt notice any difference compared to the motherboard one. waste of money imo.

 

[gordan]

Still undecided on the harddrive, got SSD listed there for now until I get some more information.

Complete waste of money, IMO. Mirrored disks will still go 2x faster on reads and give you data redundancy, and you'll still save a lot compared to having an SSD.

Brand of of the 4870 X2, have any significance? Prices seem to wary with no more than 10£, and some have 2 or 1 year warranty. The descriptions are identical.

No difference. Get the one with better warranty or one that comes with a free game you like (if any). There won't be any difference in performance as 99% of cards are just a stock reference design.

Still undecided on the soundcard, but the creative one I had listed before gets scrapped.

The HD audio card is redundant. Both the P5E Deluxe and Rampage Formula come with a HD audio card. You won't tell any difference in sound quality with a different card.

Oh, and lastly, is quad-core worth it versus a wolfdale dual-core? From what I've been told, very few games benefit from quad-core yet & the price difference is pretty significant. Will go with quad-core though, if it's worth it.

There are very few games that use 4 cores at all, and none use 4 cores fully. In general, you'll get considerably better performance on games from using 2 fast cores than 4 slow ones. Remember, quads get FSB limited about 15% before duals, and duals are much cheaper. Expect to get about 4GHz from a 45nm Duo. They have 333FSB as standard, so assuming you can hit 500MHz FSB (should be relatively easy), it means you need a 2.66GHz C2D, which is the E8200. Anything faster than that will just be wasted.

Also, I notice you listed DDR2-800 memory. Go with 1066 memory, it'll make a significant difference. But as I said earlier, whatever memory you get, make sure it's in the QVL, it's only way to make sure it will work in the given configuration (pay attention to single vs. dual vs. quad DIMMs in the QVL!).

 

[Varaxfire]

Where can one find the QVL list, or more information about that?

Hm both those mobos seem to use the same audio card, must be decent enough then.

Edit: gordan, could you explain a bit more to a newbie how anything faster than a 2.66GHz E8200 dual-core is redundant?

 

[Glaucus]

The Asus P5E Deluxe Intel X48 you selected AcidHell2, is it better than the one I choose? Certainly is cheaper.

There isn't a lot of difference.
the ROG boards (formula) get a few bells and whistles.

ASUS EPU (Energy Processing Unit)
Enables the Most Energy Efficient Motherboard in the World
The ASUS EPU utilizes innovative technology to digitally monitor and finetune the CPU power supply with improved VR responses in heavy or light loadings. Working together with AI Gear 3, it automatically provides power for higher performance or improves efficiency by 50% when the PC is running low intensity applications - helping you attain the best possible power efficiency and energy savings of up to 80.23% to help save the environment.

External LCD Poster
Debug and read system problems with an new external look!
The new LCD Poster now posts critical POST information in an ever friendly and flexible external display. When system malfunction occurs, the LCD Poster automatically detects device failure and translates the errors on the LCD during POST. Unlike other competing 2 digit displays, users won´t need to read "gibberish" to find out what´s wrong.

Onboard Switch
No more shorting pins or moving jumpers
With an easy press during overclock, this exclusive onboard switch allows gamer to effortlessly fine-tune the performance without having to short the pins or moving jumpers!

ASUS Q-Connector
Make connections quick and accurate
The Q-Connector allows you to connect or disconnect chassis front panel cables in one easy step with one complete module. This unique adapter eliminates the trouble of plugging in one cable at a time, making connection quick and accurate.

And a better sound card but as you are getting a separate one that doesn't matter.

As said Raid 0 is also an option and cheap. 2 Samsung f1 320GB our perfect for this.

 

[gordan]

Where can one find the QVL list, or more information about that?

Click the QVL button on the left for the for P5E Deluxe

The modules listed in there are the ones that have been thoroughly tested by Asus and verified to work correctly in their motherboard. Although in theory all memory to a certain spec should work in all motherboards that require that spec, in reality, weird incompatibilities arise. Getting QVL-ed memory is worth it for the peace of mind. In addition to the QVL, if you _REALLY_ want a different brand of memory that's not listed, check the memory manufacturer's web site. Some of them do their own compatibility testing. Ideally, you'll want a module listed as compatible by both the motherboard and the memory manufacturer. But if you're getting an Asus board, the QVL is a good place to start.

Hm both those mobos seem to use the same audio card, must be decent enough then.

It's digital sound, they'll all sound the same.

Edit: gordan, could you explain a bit more to a newbie how anything faster than a 2.66GHz E8200 dual-core is redundant?

Since you are getting a motherboard capable of it and since you are looking for ultimate performance, I am assuming you are planning to do some overclocking and tuning. The 45nm Core2s have a FSB of 333MHz. Most 45nm Core2s will do around 4GHz, and the dual core ones will generally hit 500MHz on the FSB (my old E6600 65nm did, so I see no reason why a later dual core chip wouldn't). Thus, 4GHz @ 500MHz FSB = x8 multiplier. 333 MHz (standard FSB) x 8 = 2.66GHz. Therefore, since you can achieve 4GHz with a 2.66GHz chip, why spend more on a faster CPU? All you'll achieve is that you have to reduce the multiplier to x8, and the end result will be the same.

 

[Glaucus]

It's digital sound, they'll all sound the same.

Not true.digital sound is still processed and altered.
If you are outputting it through digital to an av reciever/ amp then your right they are all the same.
if you are letting the actual sound card do the decoding and altering, then they are very much different.

Since you are getting a motherboard capable of it and since you are looking for ultimate performance, I am assuming you are planning to do some overclocking and tuning. The 45nm Core2s have a FSB of 333MHz. Most 45nm Core2s will do around 4GHz, and the dual core ones will generally hit 500MHz on the FSB (my old E6600 65nm did, so I see no reason why a later dual core chip wouldn't). Thus, 4GHz @ 500MHz FSB = x8 multiplier. 333 MHz (standard FSB) x 8 = 2.66GHz. Therefore, since you can achieve 4GHz with a 2.66GHz chip, why spend more on a faster CPU? All you'll achieve is that you have to reduce the multiplier to x8, and the end result will be the same.

But he should be looking at quad core, he has said he is keeping this for a long time and Dx11 is out next year. which will take advantage of multi cores. It's *** same development suite as dx10 so developers should take it up quickly.

 

[gordan]

As said Raid 0 is also an option and cheap. 2 Samsung f1 320GB our perfect for this.

I'd be VERY weary of this.
1) RAID0 increases the failure rate exponentially (you multiply the probability of failure, as losing any one disk loses the whole lot). Fine if your data is worthless to you, but for most people that won't be the case. Do you really have more than 1TB of data? Get 2x 1TB disks and put them in RAID1, and have the peace of mind.

2) Getting 2 identical disks is also asking for trouble, even in RAID1. I have had two Samsung disks fail near simultaneously in a RAID1 strips, which hosed all my data on that box (luckily, it was also mirrored in realtime to another box, but that could have been very bad). This risk is easily mitigated by getting two disks of same size from different manufacturers, e.g. a Samsung and a Seagate. The chances of both of them failing simultaneously are virtually 0 (unless you throw the machine out of the window or your PSU goes fubar and produces a power spike big enough to burn the whole machine out.

 

[Glaucus]

I'd be VERY weary of this.
1) RAID0 increases the failure rate exponentially (you multiply the probability of failure, as losing any one disk loses the whole lot). Fine if your data is worthless to you, but for most people that won't be the case. Do you really have more than 1TB of data? Get 2x 1TB disks and put them in RAID1, and have the peace of mind.

Any drive can fail. raid 0 is not evil. It is only for the os and games. Not your files. It increases the speed substantially. Which is the aim in this.

which is why you have two small drives for raid 0 and 1 large drive for files and media.
raid 1 does not increase speed.

Again two disks the same does not increase the risk at all. But it does mean they have identical search, read and write times that is needed.

 

[gordan]

Not true.digital sound is still processed and altered.
If you are outputting it through digital to an av reciever/ amp then your right they are all the same.
if you are letting the actual sound card do the decoding and altering, then they are very much different.

This is the part where one also has to ask:
1) Are your speakers good enough for the difference to be audible?
2) Are your ears good enough for the difference to be audible?

But he should be looking at quad core, he has said he is keeping this for a long time and Dx11 is out next year. which will take advantage of multi cores. It's *** same development suite as dx10 so developers should take it up quickly.

Even so, achieving full saturation on all cores is not trivial. That is why Intel have designed Nehalem to be able to turn off under-used cores and instead crank up the frequency on the remaining ones so that the currently operating part still stays below the TDP. A quad is great for some applications, but if your target application is gaming, I dare say that an E8200@4GHz will do better than a [email protected], all things being equal. Also don't forget that even if the memory clock speed is the same, FSB makes a massive difference to memory bandwidth, and a quad will top out the FSB considerably before a dual core CPU. And believe me, memory bandwidth makes quite a difference in a lot of games.