1080p Projectors

[alexthecheese]

Was sitting down the pub yesterday watching the football in London and they had an awesome HD projector set up to watch the football. Cant really guess what size the screen was accurately, but it must've been near the 100" mark.

It made me think about putting off getting a big LCD/Plasma telly and getting an LCD projector instead. I would've thought it was unlikely their projector was 1080p, but are there any that are reasonably priced these days?

720p seems reasonably affordable - BenQ model for about £600ish, an Epsom foe £700-odd and then it goes right up. There's a 1080p Epsom for £2k which includes a PS3 and HD player but then that's just too much for me!

Also, bulb like is quoted on the ones above at 2-3000 hours. That's not a great deal, is it?

 

[Demon]

The Panasonic PTAE2000 is really the price/performer in the 1080p stakes in my Opinion, it is £1900, but it handles 24fps correctly, and has had superb reviews..

However, I've been running 720p projectors for a few years, and am still amazed by the 'definition' of 720p on a 108" screen.. since these are around the £650-£700 as you are finding, it's an ideal way to get into projectors without compromising too much.. and you won't lose much when you sell these on..

Bulb Life of 2-3000 hours is the norm, prjectors are really more occasional use items so if you averaged 2 hours per day, that would be 4+ years, replacements are £150-300, it would be very difficuly to 'replace' a TV entirely, I have a relatively cheap 42" LCD for daily use, and use the projector for films, games and the odd bit of SKY HD. you would need a 'light controlled room' to use a projector during daylight otherwise.. which isn't ideal..

 

[daz]

Also, bulb like is quoted on the ones above at 2-3000 hours. That's not a great deal, is it?

Well if you think about it, 3000 hours is quite a lot, at least if you're not doing your normal everyday TV viewing - the news, neighbours, quiz shows etc on it.

1000 hours works out to 3 hours on average per day, so that's 3 hours a day for three years, which is one lord of the rings or a couple of comedy films a day.

Replacement bulbs tend to cost £200-£300 so you're looking at 10p per hour cost of ownership in terms of just the bulb.

 

[alexthecheese]

That is something I'd need to consider I guess. I have a 32" HD LCD already, and would've been tempted to ditch that in favour of a straight projector, but with the light levels and the cost of the bulbs/life is making me think twice.

There's an Optomax HD70 which comes with a free 80" screen for £600 inc. delivery which has great reviews. It'll chuck out a maximum 86" screen from where I can put the projector up, so an 80" screen sounds ideal really. Slightly smaller but brighter.

As for room blackout for movie nights etc., my brother had his curtains lined with black material to stop light coming in when he worked nights and that seemed to do the trick. What other tricks can you try?

 

[alexthecheese]

Actually - the screens - if I didn't get one free, what screens are good and do the expensive ones really justify their cost?

 

[Demon]

I paid £165 for a 108" manual pull down.. it more then does the job, 80" screens are much cheaper, £90 for an electric one on the bay..

What you do get with more expensive screens is differing material, and reflectivity that can give more/less contrast/light levels depending on your room characteristics, they also come with fancier methods of tensioning the screen, rather then just a weight at the bottom of it!..

I'd stick with your LCD and buy a PJ as well, it seems the best compromise, used 2 hours a day that still gives 4+ years of use, and replacement bulbs do then give it a new lease of life!..

 

[alexthecheese]

Can I ask what your setup is DEmon? Do you use the full 108" screen, does it work well with ambient light or do you have a darkened room? How far do you sit away from the screen? I've just been measurign out various screen sizes with a tape measure and 108" is positively massive!!

Just been checking out the projection calculator on this website Sony Bravia AWL-15 and it seems to be a very bright projector which would suit the size better with a little ambient light. I wouldn't want to be sitting int he dark all the time using it, which worries mea little.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

I've had my old Panny AE500 for around 3 years now and have run up 1900hrs of use, so that should give you an indication of potential life. It's been used in econo-mode for pretty much all of that, and is still on it's first bulb.

Personally I wouldn't want to use it in anything but a darkened room. Daylight conditions result in a pretty unacceptable picture. To ensure that I have blackout linings within my curtains.

For my screen, I've painted the room using Dulux Greysteel4. Looks white initially, but actually has a grey tinge which prevents some light reflection and improved the contrast ratio lots. B&Q sell for around £30 for a 5 ltr tin.

The only other thing that I can think of worth mentioning is that if possible, ensure that the projector is mounted dead on towards the screen. Most do have "keystone correction" if your projector is not centrally mounted, but my experience is that these have their own side effects and should be avoided where possible. Mine is mounted on a shelf bolted to the all above my seating position.

 

[Toekiller]

720p pj's are stunning for the price.

 

[cokecan]

That is something I'd need to consider I guess. I have a 32" HD LCD already, and would've been tempted to ditch that in favour of a straight projector, but with the light levels and the cost of the bulbs/life is making me think twice.

There's an Optomax HD70 which comes with a free 80" screen for £600 inc. delivery which has great reviews. It'll chuck out a maximum 86" screen from where I can put the projector up, so an 80" screen sounds ideal really. Slightly smaller but brighter.

As for room blackout for movie nights etc., my brother had his curtains lined with black material to stop light coming in when he worked nights and that seemed to do the trick. What other tricks can you try?

I've got an Optoma HD70, bought it as an upgrade from a panny PT-AE500. First thing i noticed after switching was how bright the HD70 was compared to the AE500, though the bulb in the AE500 had just blown and was noticably dimmer during the weeks before it blew

I know the HD70 is only a cheap budget DLP pj but the difference between this and the AE500's LCD tech was pretty amazing to my eyes. blacks looked much darker, all other colours looked generally more vibrant etc

only minor gripe for me is that some yellow's look a tad too dark, even after trying to calibrate it, but only when I have my PC connected via HDMI. the yellow of the windows folders in my docs looks to dark, yet the same folders on my desktop look fine lol guess its down to the rather dark desktop image i have compared to a white background of my documents. Xbox via VGA all looks great colour wise

Can't fault it for the price at all!

 

[T00thBru5h]

Alexthecheese - I've got a PannyAE900, they are getting pretty cheap now for bradnew, and I use it in a relatively light room during the summer, and of course during the winter it's pitch black. Picture quality is excellent via HDMI and my screensize is ~115".

If I was you, already having a decent size TV, a projector would definately be worthwhile thinking about

 

[alexthecheese]

Any chance of getting some pics, just to stir my temptation?

Cokecan it's interesting to hear you've got one that I'm tempted by! How long is the throw and is it watchable with normal ambient light with an open window, or is that just pushing it too much?

It is crazy that we're talking about screens in excess of 100", particularly seeing as the projectors are relatively so cheap!

Toothbrush I am seriously tempted.

 

[cokecan]

well in my room I've got 3 windows, and they've all got blinds on but the blinds dont block out a huge ammount of light, but the screen is still pretty damn bright, i find it perfectly useable to watch a dvd series or tv ep's of something however for having a proper film session, it has to be dark outside to get the best out of it

Handy for throw distances
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD70-projection-calculator-pro.htm

It's pretty got quite a limited throw distance compared to my old AE500 but then from reading on AV forums, thats mainly down to DLP vs LCD etc. LCD are generally more flexible in positioning, where as DLP tend to have better black levels etc

One thing worth noting, it's got quite a severe offset to it. I have the pj mounted upside down on a shelf at the back of the room, the top of the screen is about 4' off the ground, but the projector is higher than this just to get the projected image to fit on the screen square without using any kind of keystone, like Mr_Sukebe said, just a pure projected image with no side effects or screen door

EDIT:

incase anyone wants to try and calibrate more settings, or can find a use for it, the service menu is: press power button once then left, left, up

 

[alexthecheese]

Not sure quite what you mean about the offset. Actually maybe I do... you mean that if it's on a horizontal flat surface it will project a picture lower down than the height of the lens?

Could you angle it somehow to correct this?

Than is an excellent site cheers, was using it earlier to see what projector does what. For once the products they list are pretty much all there and current!

 

[cokecan]

yeah, basically. For the HD70, say the projector was on a flat surface, the bottom of the projected image will actually be about inline with the lens

Theres a ratio for it somewhere in the manual and ont he net (dont know what it is off hand). you can angle it up or down but then you'd have to use keystone correction to straighten the image which may create side effects

 

[Warbie]

Check out Goo Systems if you fancy making your own screen. I've owned two pulldowns in the last few years and wasn't happy with either. Infact, a little experimenting with dulux paint yielded better results.

If you have the space for a fixed screen you could do far worse, and I doubt you'd find anything better for under £500 http://www.goosystems.com/

 

[Demon]

Can I ask what your setup is DEmon? Do you use the full 108" screen, does it work well with ambient light or do you have a darkened room? How far do you sit away from the screen? I've just been measurign out various screen sizes with a tape measure and 108" is positively massive!!

Just been checking out the projection calculator on this website Sony Bravia AWL-15 and it seems to be a very bright projector which would suit the size better with a little ambient light. I wouldn't want to be sitting int he dark all the time using it, which worries mea little.

I have a Sanyo PLV-Z4, 720p, installed in my front room, with light coloured walls/ceiling.. I have a blind over the window, and the screen also pulls down in front of it, this is more then enough to give acceptably low light levels for a good experience..

I'd still recommend keeping your LCD for general daytime TV watching, and pop the PJ on when it's convenient. Running a PJ too bright shortens bulb life, and it doesn't stop the black level being poor in ambient light, and the brighter PJ's are often not the best 'home cinema' performers..

Horses for courses though.. people do get away with using a PJ full time, it's just won't suit everyone.

 

[Mr Latte]

Theirs a big difference in general performance between the £800-£1000 720p projector against the new approx £2000 1080p models. Its not all down to pixels, its the lens,iris, contrast ratio, colour performance all those kind of factors are better creating a much improved image.

The reason is that 720p performance has kinda remained the same over the last year or so with only revised new models (eg AX100 - AX200) The market has moved to make 1080p more mainstream and here the £2000 models actually better then say Sonys VW50 Peral or other models costing approx £4000 just 18 months ago.

Thats why the 1080p models are getting so much attention at the moment.

Id expect the 1080p models to get revised to approx £1500+ at some point next year however i cant see companies like Panasonic, Sanyo etc wanting to miss out on the £800+ market and therefore like this year imo its doubtfull 720p models will be improving much as the 1080p market will be the main focus.

Still if anything 720p projectors will continue to fall in price.
The AX200 is the brightest on the market for daytime/lights on viewing but will have washed out blacks and unatural colours in its DYNAMIC high contrast mode. Its still a very good projector though, terrific infact and is a BIG step up from the older AE500 / AE700 / AE900 Panasonics. Great upgrade for owners of such too.

* Panasonic projectors will offer you the best possible setup options for off centre placement and the widest zoom on the market.


This past week ive been rather busy enjoying my projector...

(Photographed directly off screen with camera)

 

[alexthecheese]

I can't view all of those images for some reasons Latte, but the first two I can see and that looks absolutely stunning, particularly given it's a photo of the projection. It must be pretty immersive when the screens are that big, right?! Out of interest, what is it you're using Mr. Latte?

Do the majority of projectors do 1:1 mapping? I'm building a new PC in the near year and if I could struggle to a 1080p projector as well (say they did come down to a more reasonable £1500 or less) then I could game on it with my PC as well as Xbox. Stick a Blu-ray drive in it and I'd be covered from all HD angles.

 

[alexthecheese]

Also - I had a look at the Goo stuff, and it's about $250 - no UK suppliers by the looks of it - and for that amount of money I think I'd rather buy something that I couldn't completely **** up.