£1100 all-in. Spec me please!

potato58 · 29 Jul 2011 at 20:45

Hi all,

I've just found out that the manufacturer is going to refund my £800 for a (faulty!) laptop that I bought earlier this year. I'm going to put the money into a new all-singing-all-dancing desktop (and peripherals) which will be used for gaming, multi-tasking, home entertainment, movies etc. I can afford to put another £300 in, bringing the overall budget up to around £1100 including monitor, OS, everything. As soon as my laptop is collected I'll be computerless, so the clock is ticking!

I want something as future-proof as possible which will run BF3, Skyrim etc on high settings, with AA turned on, comfortably. I'm not sure how realistic that is though. I'd also like to have options in the future for connecting to a proper amp and speakers, putting in a second GPU (without watercooling!), running 3D or multiple monitors ((e.g. to watch a movie while playing a game)) etc. I really want to invest in this as I'll use it for thousands of hours over the long term. I want good value for money, but I'm not worrying about spending an extra £10 or £20 on a component for a step up in quality. This will be my first ever build and I'm hoping to overclock it slightly and very easily.

Here's what I think I've decided so far:

Peripherals

Monitor (must be at least 23", 1080, 3D-capable, 120hz, suitable for console gaming too)
Mechanical keyboard (allow £100 - possibly a Fenic tenkeyless brown switch).
Mouse (already have Razer Deathadder)
Speakers (have headset - will buy proper speakers later)

Guts

Case (something big enough and easy to work with, not too chavvy/ugly, I have huge hands).
Power supply (no idea)
Cooler for overclocking (no idea)
Fans etc (no idea)
Motherboard (must be suitable for nvidia sli)
Hard drive (maybe WD Caviar Black 1TB)
CPU (maybe Intel Core i5 2500k)
RAM (8GB total, no idea)
GPU (Maybe some flavour of the nvidia 570)
Optical drive (must play blu-ray)

That's as far as I've got. Any help, suggestions, tips, or questions would be welcome.

Thanks very much.

stulid · 29 Jul 2011 at 21:01

Your basketProduct Name Qty Price Line Total
Acer GD245HQ 23.6" 120Hz 3D Widescreen LCD Monitor (ET.UG5HE.004) - Black £229.99
(£191.66) £229.99
(£191.66)
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 560Ti OC 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £179.99
(£149.99) £179.99
(£149.99)
Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM £155.99
(£129.99) £155.99
(£129.99)
MSI P67A-GD53 Intel P67 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard ** B3 REVISION ** £114.98
(£95.82) £114.98
(£95.82)
Crucial RealSSD M4 64GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive £87.98
(£73.32) £87.98
(£73.32)
Lepa B-Series 750W '80 Plus Bronze' Modular Power Supply £72.98
(£60.82) £72.98
(£60.82)
Microsoft Windows 7 Bundle - Home Premium 64 Bit £68.40
(£57.00) £68.40
(£57.00)
Options applied to the above product:
Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (WD5000AAKX) £29.99
(£24.99) £29.99
(£24.99)
Cooler Master CM-690 II Lite Dominator Case - Black £59.99
(£49.99) £59.99
(£49.99)
Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX) £47.99
(£39.99) £47.99
(£39.99)
LG CH10LS20 10x BluRay-ROM / 16x DVD±RW Drive - Black (Retail) £45.98
(£38.32) £45.98
(£38.32)
Gelid Tranquillo CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/AM2+/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) £23.99
(£19.99) £23.99
(£19.99)
Sub Total : £931.88
Shipping cost assumes delivery to UK Mainland with:
DPD Next Day Parcel
(This can be changed during checkout) Shipping : £22.20
VAT is being charged at 20.00% VAT : £190.82
Total : £1,144.90

So thats a,

Sli/Crossfire at 8X/8X board.
64GB SSD + 500GB HDD
Modular PSU
A big'ish sized case.
120hz Nvidia 3D vision monitor.
Blu-ray player with software for playback as its a Retail box.

You will need extra for a keyboard, theres no way of fitting a GTX570 in the build without removing things such as either the 3D display or dropping SLI/Crossfire support.

stulid · 29 Jul 2011 at 21:08

Remove the SSD and just use the 500GB harddrive that comes with the Win7 bundle means a GTX570 can go in but still no keyboard.

Your basketProduct Name Qty Price Line Total
MSI GeForce GTX 570 1280MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £239.99
(£199.99) £239.99
(£199.99)
Acer GD245HQ 23.6" 120Hz 3D Widescreen LCD Monitor (ET.UG5HE.004) - Black £229.99
(£191.66) £229.99
(£191.66)
Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM £155.99
(£129.99) £155.99
(£129.99)
MSI P67A-GD53 Intel P67 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard ** B3 REVISION ** £114.98
(£95.82) £114.98
(£95.82)
Lepa B-Series 750W '80 Plus Bronze' Modular Power Supply £72.98
(£60.82) £72.98
(£60.82)
Microsoft Windows 7 Bundle - Home Premium 64 Bit £68.40
(£57.00) £68.40
(£57.00)
Options applied to the above product:
Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (WD5000AAKX) £29.99
(£24.99) £29.99
(£24.99)
Cooler Master CM-690 II Lite Dominator Case - Black £59.99
(£49.99) £59.99
(£49.99)
Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX) £47.99
(£39.99) £47.99
(£39.99)
LG CH10LS20 10x BluRay-ROM / 16x DVD±RW Drive - Black (Retail) £45.98
(£38.32) £45.98
(£38.32)
Gelid Tranquillo CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/AM2+/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) £23.99
(£19.99) £23.99
(£19.99)
Sub Total : £908.56
Shipping cost assumes delivery to UK Mainland with:
DPD Next Day Parcel
(This can be changed during checkout) Shipping : £22.20
VAT is being charged at 20.00% VAT : £186.15
Total : £1,116.91

Jony27 · 29 Jul 2011 at 21:10

nice spec there as always, but just wanted to ask why you specced a more expensive monitor when theres this:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-091-LG

stulid · 29 Jul 2011 at 21:13

I was looking for that screen just now, new spec incoming.

stulid · 29 Jul 2011 at 21:15

Your basketProduct Name Qty Price Line Total
MSI GeForce GTX 570 1280MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £239.99
(£199.99) £239.99
(£199.99)
Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM £155.99
(£129.99) £155.99
(£129.99)
LG W2363D 23" TRUE 120Hz 3D Widescreen LCD Monitor - Black £152.99
(£127.49) £152.99
(£127.49)
Crucial RealSSD M4 64GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive £87.98
(£73.32) £87.98
(£73.32)
Asus P8P67 LE Intel P67 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard ** B3 REVISION ** £68.98
(£57.48) £68.98
(£57.48)
Microsoft Windows 7 Bundle - Home Premium 64 Bit £68.40
(£57.00) £68.40
(£57.00)
Options applied to the above product:
Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (WD5000AAKX) £29.99
(£24.99) £29.99
(£24.99)
Antec TruePower New Modular 550W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply ** FREE 3D Mark 2011 Advanced ** £59.99
(£49.99) £59.99
(£49.99)
Cooler Master CM-690 II Lite Dominator Case - Black £59.99
(£49.99) £59.99
(£49.99)
LG CH10LS20 10x BluRay-ROM / 16x DVD±RW Drive - Black (Retail) £45.98
(£38.32) £45.98
(£38.32)
Corsair XMS3 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (CMX4GX3M2A1600C9) £26.39
(£21.99) £26.39
(£21.99)
Gelid Tranquillo CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/AM2+/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) £23.99
(£19.99) £23.99
(£19.99)
Sub Total : £850.54
Shipping cost assumes delivery to UK Mainland with:
DPD Next Day Parcel
(This can be changed during checkout) Shipping : £22.20
VAT is being charged at 20.00% VAT : £174.55
Total : £1,047.29

No SLI option.

But hopefully enough ££ left for the keyboard.

munz · 29 Jul 2011 at 21:23

stulid said:
Asus P8P67 LE Intel P67 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard ** B3 REVISION ** £68.98
(£57.48) £68.98
(£57.48)

no way to manually set voltage, can still overclock but bit more fiddly.

would spend wee bit more on the mobo, will make it easier to overclock,fine tune overclock, less hassle in general

i had the same issue with my p8p67-m mobo, my fault for not researching enough i guess

imo avoid low end asus/ maybe avoid low end in general

edit: did i know something stulid didnt know.. *feels like a special ********** hehe

stulid · 29 Jul 2011 at 21:27

I do understand its a low end board, but most i5 2500K overclocking involves literally just setting the multiplier to say 40-42 (4ghz-4.2ghz) and seeing if it boots

munz · 29 Jul 2011 at 21:39

OP last post looks nearly spot on,

upgrade the mobo to something bit better : on par with p8p67 pro/msi/gigabyte equivalents, this will bring back option for sli/crossfire in future.

case a personal choice, fan of the haf series myself

4gb ram is plenty

maybe sub out SSD to squeeze in the keyboard, i'd prefer SSD tbh

potato58 · 29 Jul 2011 at 21:40

Thanks guys - looking good so far but please keep the ideas coming.

A few quick points:

- SLI sounds like a bit of a hassle, so if it's a choice between 2x 560ti and 1x 570, I think I'd take the 570. But like I said above, I'm a total noob. 3D is a must though, even if I never use it, I'd like the option.

- I'm okay with paying more for a mobo if it make my life easier.

- Deffo want 8GB RAM as the cost is so low.

- Is the Acer monitor above any better than the LG? Does the LG work with Nvidia's 3D glasses, or LG's passive-type?

- Need 1TB HDD. 500GB is not enough for me - I'll outgrow it.

- Not fussed about an SSD at this time. Would rather put that money elsewhere.

Thanks guys!

stulid · 29 Jul 2011 at 21:50

- I'm okay with paying more for a mobo if it make my life easier.

Well the MSI GD53 has a button for overclocking called OCgenie, press it and it gives you a quick 4.2GHZ, SLI etc are available on it.

- Is the Acer monitor above any better than the LG? Does the LG work with Nvidia's 3D glasses, or LG's passive-type?

The LG does work with the nvidia glasses,
http://3dvision-blog.com/review-of-the-23-lg-w2363d-120hz-full-hd-3d-gaming-monitor/
http://www.lg.com/uk/it-products/monitors/LG-3d-monitor-W2363D.jsp

Your basketProduct Name Qty Price Line Total
MSI GeForce GTX 570 1280MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £239.99
(£199.99) £239.99
(£199.99)
Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM £155.99
(£129.99) £155.99
(£129.99)
LG W2363D 23" TRUE 120Hz 3D Widescreen LCD Monitor - Black £152.99
(£127.49) £152.99
(£127.49)
MSI P67A-GD53 Intel P67 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard ** B3 REVISION ** £114.98
(£95.82) £114.98
(£95.82)
Crucial RealSSD M4 64GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive £87.98
(£73.32) £87.98
(£73.32)
Lepa B-Series 750W '80 Plus Bronze' Modular Power Supply £72.98
(£60.82) £72.98
(£60.82)
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-Bit - OEM (GFC-00599) £71.98
(£59.98) £71.98
(£59.98)
Cooler Master CM-690 II Lite Dominator Case - Black £59.99
(£49.99) £59.99
(£49.99)
LG CH10LS20 10x BluRay-ROM / 16x DVD±RW Drive - Black (Retail) £45.98
(£38.32) £45.98
(£38.32)
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB SATA-II 32MB Cache - OEM (HD103SJ) £39.98
(£33.32) £39.98
(£33.32)
Corsair XMS3 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (CMX4GX3M2A1600C9) £26.39
(£21.99) £26.39
(£21.99)
Gelid Tranquillo CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/AM2+/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) £23.99
(£19.99) £23.99
(£19.99)
Sub Total : £911.02
Shipping cost assumes delivery to UK Mainland with:
DPD Next Day Parcel
(This can be changed during checkout) Shipping : £20.10
VAT is being charged at 20.00% VAT : £186.22
Total : £1,117.34

potato58 · 30 Jul 2011 at 20:33

Thanks a lot for the input everyone - very helpful.

So, I think I've decided on these parts. What do you guys think - are the prices reasonable and the choices right?

Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM [BX80623I52500K] - £155.99

Gelid Tranquillo CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/AM2+/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) - £23.99

LG CH10LS20 10x BluRay-ROM / 16x DVD±RW Drive - Black (Retail) [CH10LS20] - £52.99

Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX) [KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX] - £59.99

Cooler Master CM-690 II Lite Dominator Case - Black [RC-692-KKN3] - £59.99

LG W2363D 23" TRUE 120Hz 3D Widescreen LCD Monitor - Black - £152.99

Total so far: £505.93

And I'm still debating these ones. I'd be very grateful for some input:

Nvidia GTX 570
I see that there are several different versions of this. Like I said before, there is the possibility that I'd like to SLI this card at some point in the future (a year or two from now), so I have to keep that in mind. I'm not sure what would be the best choice here. There's the OcUK version at £239.99, the MSI at the same price, a Gainward for another £10, and a twin Frozr III on pre-order at £254.99 (though when it'll come in, I don't know). Not to mention the other versions which are out of stock. Which should I go for? Should I wait for a re-stock on anything? I don't mind spending the extra cash, I just don't understand what I'd be getting for it.

Motherboard
I'm completely lost here. I need to do some research on the options suggested above.

SSD
Not sure exactly what the benefit of these are and how complex they are to set up (e.g. keeping OS and games/data on different drives). Do they just make starting up and launching programs faster? If so, might treat as a luxury purchase further down the line.

Power supply
A couple of different ones were suggested above. I want to get an efficient one that won't waste power, but it'd be nice if I didn't have to upgrade this part if/when I SLI the GTX 570. Any thoughts?

Hard Drive
Thinking about it some more, maybe the 500GB-Windows 7 bundle is the way to go, considering the great price point at £101.39. If I outgrow this in a year or so I could always throw in an extra drive, couldn't I? Would another one fit in the case? Even if I went with an SSD too?

Fans
Do I need any extra fans and that sort of stuff?

Keyboard
I'll have to research this separately.

Thanks again everyone - you're wonderful people.

stulid · 30 Jul 2011 at 20:38

GTX570,

Just get the cheapest reference design version where the hot air is expelled straight out the back of the case.

Motherboard,

Either a P67 or Z68 chipset - http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/motherboards/2011/05/13/what-is-the-intel-z68-chipset/1
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-170-MS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=1906
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-458-AS

SSD,

These are rapid storage devices using silly fast memory chips instead of a mechanical disk like a harddrive, they have almost instant access times and huge Mb per sec through put.

PSU,

Bronze/Silver efficiency rated, its all good, get a good brand (Corsair/XFX/Antec/Lepa) about 750W+ for SLI GTX570 power consumption

Fans,

Not really needing any more, the case has good cooling.

Hyburnate · 30 Jul 2011 at 22:18

I'm not the best with specing you'd have to check with someone (or yourself) its all compatible.

stulid · 30 Jul 2011 at 22:21

Not to sure were to start with that.

The motherboard is far too much money.
The PSU is too much money and isnt great, it has a poor range of connectors.
The H50 is worse than a Antec 620.
£185 for a 1Gb 6950 is no good, a 2Gb version is a few quid more.

-----------------------------------------------

Your basketProduct Name Qty Price Line Total
MSI GeForce GTX 570 1280MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £239.99
(£199.99) £239.99
(£199.99)
Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM £155.99
(£129.99) £155.99
(£129.99)
LG W2363D 23" TRUE 120Hz 3D Widescreen LCD Monitor - Black £152.99
(£127.49) £152.99
(£127.49)
Asus P8Z68-V Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard £129.98
(£108.32) £129.98
(£108.32)
Lepa B-Series 750W '80 Plus Bronze' Modular Power Supply £72.98
(£60.82) £72.98
(£60.82)
Microsoft Windows 7 Bundle - Home Premium 64 Bit £68.40
(£57.00) £68.40
(£57.00)
Options applied to the above product:
Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (WD5000AAKX) £32.99
(£27.49) £32.99
(£27.49)
Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX) £59.99
(£49.99) £59.99
(£49.99)
Cooler Master CM-690 II Lite Dominator Case - Black £59.99
(£49.99) £59.99
(£49.99)
LG CH10LS20 10x BluRay-ROM / 16x DVD±RW Drive - Black (Retail) £52.99
(£44.16) £52.99
(£44.16)
Gelid Tranquillo CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/AM2+/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) £23.99
(£19.99) £23.99
(£19.99)
Sub Total : £875.23
Shipping cost assumes delivery to UK Mainland with:
DPD Next Day Parcel
(This can be changed during checkout) Shipping : £22.20
VAT is being charged at 20.00% VAT : £179.49
Total : £1,076.92

potato58 · 31 Jul 2011 at 19:41

Thank you again, especially stulid!

I think I'm ready for my final check. Here's what I have in my basket now. I went for the more £15 more expensive motherboard as it sounded easier to use and I swapped the PSU for one that's a little more expensive but on a weekly deal - was that wise? Additionally, I went for the MSI GPU rather than the OcUK one. What do you think? Did I forget anything? (I've also thrown in a £5 keyboard - I'll get a nice one later.)

Final silly question for the moment - do I need to buy any extra cables, wires, thermal paste, magic bracelets, or wifi dongles (is wifi built into the mobo?)?

Product Name Qty Price Line Total
MSI GeForce GTX 570 1280MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card MSI GeForce GTX 570 1280MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £239.99
(£199.99) £239.99
(£199.99)
Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM £155.99
(£129.99) £155.99
(£129.99)
LG W2363D 23" TRUE 120Hz 3D Widescreen LCD Monitor - Black LG W2363D 23" TRUE 120Hz 3D Widescreen LCD Monitor - Black £152.99
(£127.49) £152.99
(£127.49)
Asus P8Z68-V Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard £129.98
(£108.32) £129.98
(£108.32)
Antec TruePower New Modular 750W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply ** FREE 3D Mark 2011 Advanced ** Antec TruePower New Modular 750W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply ** FREE 3D Mark 2011 Advanced ** £80.99
(£67.49) £80.99
(£67.49)
Microsoft Windows 7 Bundle - Home Premium 64 Bit Microsoft Windows 7 Bundle - Home Premium 64 Bit £68.40
(£57.00) £68.40
(£57.00)
Options applied to the above product:
Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (WD5000AAKX) £32.99
(£27.49) £32.99
(£27.49)
Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX) Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX) £59.99
(£49.99) £59.99
(£49.99)
Cooler Master CM-690 II Lite Dominator Case - Black Cooler Master CM-690 II Lite Dominator Case - Black £59.99
(£49.99) £59.99
(£49.99)
LG CH10LS20 10x BluRay-ROM / 16x DVD±RW Drive - Black (Retail) LG CH10LS20 10x BluRay-ROM / 16x DVD±RW Drive - Black (Retail) £52.99
(£44.16) £52.99
(£44.16)
Gelid Tranquillo CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/AM2+/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) Gelid Tranquillo CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/AM2+/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) £23.99
(£19.99) £23.99
(£19.99)
OcUK USB Keyboard - Black OcUK USB Keyboard - Black £4.99
(£4.16) £4.99
(£4.16)
Sub Total : £886.06
Shipping cost assumes delivery to UK Mainland with:
DPD Next Day Parcel
(This can be changed during checkout) Shipping : £22.20
VAT is being charged at 20.00% VAT : £181.65
Total : £1,089.91

stulid · 31 Jul 2011 at 19:43

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with those parts.

You could (but dont have to) swap to Corsair RAM for the same price as it has more rep - http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-290-CS&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=1517

You dont need any extra cables.

A tube of paste can be bought (the heatsink does come with some) - http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=TH-003-AR&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=27

There is no wi-fi, so a dongle or PCi-e card will be needed.

Jony27 · 31 Jul 2011 at 19:43

perfecto..

PapaLazaru · 31 Jul 2011 at 19:47

Sweet rig.

potato58 · 31 Jul 2011 at 19:51

Thanks guys - can't wait til this thing isn't just imaginary! I've gone for the Corsair RAM.

About the thermal paste... do you think it's necessary? This is my first build and the idea of squirting goop on my components make me nervous!

And the wifi thingamabob. Is there any particular one you'd recommend? I have BT Infinity, if that's even remotely relevant.