128GB With a 650B Motherboard?

[thesnowdog1971]

I've tried contacting Gigabyte support regarding RAM compatibility because the QVL only lists 16Gb RAM sticks.

Whatever Motherboard I decide to buy, I'm going to be starting off with 1 x 32GB stick and then add others as time goes on.

But if the QVLs only have 16Gb sticks, how on earth are you supposed to plan for a future 128GB build?

My plan is to start off with one, then add another 32GB stick in 6 months. Then when I eventually upgrade the CPU and GPU I'm going to add another 64GB in a few years time.

But I've also heard from someone on a YouTube video mentioning that there are memory controller issues with 7000 series CPUs.

So will I be better off sticking with 64GB?

 

[Rroff]

By the way AMD 7000 series are dual-channel memory architecture so you won't see full performance with a single stick of RAM in there.

EDIT: Everything I can see online suggests the B650 is not the motherboard for 128GB RAM, I don't have any personal experience with that setup but seems it struggles at anything other than very low RAM frequencies at 128GB if you populate all 4 slots - which isn't really surprising as that is often the case on budget/mainstream segment boards Intel or AMD.

 

[thesnowdog1971]

By the way AMD 7000 series are dual-channel memory architecture so you won't see full performance with a single stick of RAM in there.

EDIT: Everything I can see online suggests the B650 is not the motherboard for 128GB RAM, I don't have any personal experience with that setup but seems it struggles at anything other than very low RAM frequencies at 128GB if you populate all 4 slots - which isn't really surprising as that is often the case on budget/mainstream segment boards Intel or AMD.

Okay, thanks. I reckon I'll go for just 64GB then. A bit pointless them having the capacity for 128GB though if you can't run them anywhere near full speed.

 

[rare]

Don’t run AM5 with a single stick of ram.

AM5 isn’t a great platform for more ram than 64GB. You can get 128GB to work with them, some boards have also now opened up to 192GB, but it’s trial and error largely down to the fact that you are going to have to make some big sacrifices to speed to even get it to work. It’s not worth it.

I run 64GB 6000 CL30, unless you REALLY need more ram for some sort of productivity, the sacrifice in ram speed will hurt gaming more.

Technically anything above 4800 is ‘overclocking’.

AMD even state that 4x2R dimms could run as low as 3600!

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/screen-shot-2022-12-23-at-20-09-56-png.275862/

 

[Rroff]

Okay, thanks. I reckon I'll go for just 64GB then. A bit pointless them having the capacity for 128GB though if you can't run them anywhere near full speed.

Sadly I think Intel/AMD have a slightly vested interest in people buying into their workstation/server products at 128GB and it is relatively niche on the desktop so they don't put the effort in to support it that should be there.

 

[thesnowdog1971]

Don’t run AM5 with a single stick of ram.

AM5 isn’t a great platform for more ram than 64GB. You can get 128GB to work with them, some boards have also now opened up to 192GB, but it’s trial and error largely down to the fact that you are going to have to make some big sacrifices to speed to even get it to work. It’s not worth it.

I run 64GB 6000 CL30, unless you REALLY need more ram for some sort of productivity, the sacrifice in ram speed will hurt gaming more.

Technically anything above 4800 is ‘overclocking’.

AMD even state that 4x2R dimms could run as low as 3600!

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/screen-shot-2022-12-23-at-20-09-56-png.275862/

Yup, I realise that running with one stick isn't a great idea, but I thought that I should be able to put up with it for 6 months until I can afford a second stick.

I've got 3 choices atm:

1) A 7600X build with 64GB RAM

2) A 7700X build with 32GB RAM

3) A 7800X3D build with 32GB of RAM

I'm also going to be using the PC for VR development so I'm going to need the extra horsepower of a Ryzen 7 I think, so option number 1 isn't a very good option.

Option number 3 would obviously be the best option, with another stick added 6 months after I build it, but that's REALLY going to stretch my finances.

I'm also going to be using my aging 1080 until I can afford a 7800XT or 7900XT, so it's going to be GPU bottlenecked up the wazoo as well lololol

Or do you guys think I'll be better off getting my GPU first, then building the new machine next year? I'm pretty sure I remember hearing somewhere that a GPU bottleneck is better than a CPU bottleneck, right?

My current PC is an i7 6700K, 32GB of DDR4 and a 1080. It was the dog's ******** when I built it years and years ago, but it's showing its age these days lol

 

[Tetras]

I'm pretty sure I remember hearing somewhere that a GPU bottleneck is better than a CPU bottleneck, right?

CPU bottlenecks usually have two forms:
1. The game is a slide show, oops.
2. FPS too low to get more kills in CS:GO.

So, yeah, it is generally preferable to be GPU-bottlenecked.

What are you doing with the PC primarily and what does "VR development" involve?

I'd say that in the majority of gaming-oriented builds you are far better off with the X3D and 32GB of memory (likely even in single channel) than any other configuration, whereas with a development-oriented PC I'd choose a 7900 non-X instead. If you're on a really tight budget then consider the 7700 non-X, it comes with a wraith prism and that's a usable cooler, which could save enough for your 64GB build.

 

[thesnowdog1971]

CPU bottlenecks usually have two forms:
1. The game is a slide show, oops.
2. FPS too low to get more kills in CS:GO.

So, yeah, it is generally preferable to be GPU-bottlenecked.

What are you doing with the PC primarily and what does "VR development" involve?

I'd say that in the majority of gaming-oriented builds you are far better off with the X3D and 32GB of memory (likely even in single channel) than any other configuration, whereas with a development-oriented PC I'd choose a 7900 non-X instead. If you're on a really tight budget then consider the 7700 non-X, it comes with a wraith prism and that's a usable cooler, which could save enough for your 64GB build.

Primarily running and using the Unreal Engine IDE, compiling using Visual Studio, using Substance Painter, Substance Designer, Blender.

But I'm also going to be using it for gaming too. I only game in VR these days, so once I get myself a 7800XT or 7900XT I'll be looking to supersample games whilst I'm playing them. I can do that with my 1080 but only at 1.5x native resolution if I'm lucky.

And of course watching way more VR pron than is healthy lololol

 

[Tetras]

Primarily running and using the Unreal Engine IDE, compiling using Visual Studio, using Substance Painter, Substance Designer, Blender.

TPU have most of these things in their benchmarks, you can see them in this review. The 7900 non-X is the CPU I'd pick for your workload (or 13700 non-K/non-F, but I'm not sure if that's any happier with 128GB than AMD).

And of course watching way more VR pron than is healthy lololol

So that's why you need the supersampling, huh?

 

[thesnowdog1971]

TPU have most of these things in their benchmarks, you can see them in this review. The 7900 non-X is the CPU I'd pick for your workload (or 13700 non-K/non-F, but I'm not sure if that's any happier with 128GB than AMD).



So that's why you need the supersampling, huh?

Yup, it makes a HUGE difference to the experience lol

Honestly, I can't live without it now.

VR makes EVERYTHING better, especially horror games, flight/space/driving sims and more.

I'm also getting a motion simulator delivered after the Summer as well, after backing this Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/346206518/yaw2-motion-simulator-and-smart-chair/description

Loads of delays, as these things always have, but I should hopefully get it after the Summer. And if I can work out how to do it, I'm going to have my VR game compatible with motion simulators, too.

But I haven't done any sort of programming for over 30 years so that may be a tall order lololol

If I can get the thing finished, and Meta are up for it, I'm planning on having 100% of the proceeds going to UNICEF to help disadvantaged kids around the world

 

[Tetras]

Yup, it makes a HUGE difference to the experience lol

Honestly, I can't live without it now.

I've never tried it, so I can't comment. There's a VR forum on here though, if you haven't seen it.

I'm also getting a motion simulator delivered after the Summer as well, after backing this Kickstarter:

An interesting bit of kit, lots of compatible games in the list too. FYI: make sure your board has everything you need, VR stuff often needs USB Type-C, though the chair says wifi, bluetooth and lan?

And if I can work out how to do it, I'm going to have my VR game compatible with motion simulators, too.

But I haven't done any sort of programming for over 30 years so that may be a tall order lololol

If I can get the thing finished, and Meta are up for it, I'm planning on having 100% of the proceeds going to UNICEF to help disadvantaged kids around the world

It's not a pron game is it? Are you using Unreal Engine to make it?

 

[thesnowdog1971]

I've never tried it, so I can't comment. There's a VR forum on here though, if you haven't seen it.



An interesting bit of kit, lots of compatible games in the list too. FYI: make sure your board has everything you need, VR stuff often needs USB Type-C, though the chair says wifi, bluetooth and lan?



It's not a pron game is it? Are you using Unreal Engine to make it?

No, it's not a pron game lol

I originally planned to work on a sci-fi survival horror game set on a mining ship in deep space, kind of Dreadhalls meets Dead Space meets Alien Isolation, with 5 or 6 hours worth of gameplay. It was going to be called Nakamura's Fall (named after the mining ship).

But then I realised that it was too big a project for someone that hasn't done any programming for 30+ years

Then that Kickstarter appeared just as I was about to buy their first motion simulator that they made. So I backed it and thought that I'd develop something a bit less ambitious - a collection of arcade games converted into VR, and see if I can get it compatible with motion sims.

It's going to be set in a VR Arcade on the same ship before it becomes infested with alien parasites, and is going to be called Rufus' VRCade

Named after a beautiful cat that I used to have

The games are going to be an Asteroids clone, a River Raid clone, a turret shooter of some sort and a rollercoaster with three different rides to choose from.

I'm just prototyping atm, but I've finished designing the bar environment, just need to sort out the character movement, menus to change the options for the movement and launch the Arcade games when the player walks up to the arcade cabinet, picks up the in game VR glasses and moves them towards their face.

I'll post some pics of the bar area tomorrow, no textures yet and no lighting because it's just a prototype, but those are going to be the final models I think because I've added some detail when I was lacking prototype discipline lol

And yes, I'm using the Unreal Engine for it. I was considering Unity but I went for Unreal instead because Epic have Nanite and Lumen for mobile hardware on their roadmap which is going to make performance A LOT better compared to Unity.

 

[Tetras]

I originally planned to work on a sci-fi survival horror game set on a mining ship in deep space, kind of Dreadhalls meets Dead Space meets Alien Isolation, with 5 or 6 hours worth of gameplay. It was going to be called Nakamura's Fall (named after the mining ship).

...

Cool themes, sound like fun!

And yes, I'm using the Unreal Engine for it. I was considering Unity but I went for Unreal instead because Epic have Nanite and Lumen for mobile hardware on their roadmap which is going to make performance A LOT better compared to Unity.

Interesting, it sounds like you're making decent progress. I have considered learning it (...on the todo list), but currently using Bethedsa's creation kit.

I'll post some pics of the bar area tomorrow, no textures yet and no lighting because it's just a prototype, but those are going to be the final models I think because I've added some detail when I was lacking prototype discipline lol

I'd like to see it, but not sure where is best on the forum, maybe the HTML, Graphics & Programming section. If there isn't anywhere, feel free to DM a blog post, or whatever.

 

[jigger]

It probably will run 128gb, but zero point in fitting 128gb unless you need it.

Also, you may not find matching 32gb sticks years apart and it’s best to buy a matched set when maxing out. I’d say it’s pretty unlikely you’ll get similar sticks over this time. Lastly you’ll drop a memory channel of performance running odd numbers of sticks.

You could go AM4 or Intel DDR4 and carry the current 32gb of memory over.

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

Just seen post about new agesa bios
Apparently big ram improvement
Speed wise anyway
Not sure about with 128gb
By the time frame you're talking about
128gb might be absolutely fine
Though as others said
Best to buy the ram all at once in matched kits