2 tricky roundabout situations

LiE · 25 Mar 2015 at 21:13

On my journey to work there are 2 particular areas that I've been thinking about recently, on the correct way to handle them. They can lead to me being caught out in some cases and wanted to see what people thought.

So the first one is a roundabout that I go left at, but know I need to be in the right lane on the next road. I can't see any road markings to explain which lanes go where, but I'd assume (which may be where I am wrong) left lane is left only, and right lane is 2nd and 3rd exit. What's happening here is people in the right lane are going left into the right lane, the lane I want to be in. I'd normally go from left lane to left lane but look to immediately move to right lane, only to find a stream of cars there.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6...m4!1e1!3m2!1s2saO4UMYFMrnYIifkb34Dw!2e0?hl=en

The second one is the roundabout, going left as the lorry is. There are no give way lines and nothing really to go off on how the merge should happen. Many times I've approached this merge point and cars are coming off the roundabout from the other direction so no space for me to fit in. I try to ensure I time my approach with a gap. So really what I'm wondering is what is the protocol here? Should the other cars be leaving space allowing for merge?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6...m4!1e1!3m2!1sxjN9v7Mw0o85dv_I_x0Gxw!2e0?hl=en

Quartz · 25 Mar 2015 at 22:07

It's been nearly 2 decades since I had to regularly navigate that first roundabout. But you should stay left until you're on the A40 then indicate to move into the RH lane. You've got a long while to merge onto the A355 / Amersham road.

Kaeo · 25 Mar 2015 at 22:34

Comically, this should be changed to a spiral roundabout by now if there are no road markings. Technically you can go left or straight ahead in the left lane.

You really shouldn't be going into the right hand lane at that turn off from the right hand lane, the right hand lane there is for people coming round the roundabout from previous entrances. Accident waiting to happen. A couple of arrows painted on the road is all it takes to solve the problem.

Edit: Weirdly enough, at another entrance to that roundabout there are arrows showing left only in the left lane and straight ahead only in the right lane, but not at the one you use.

Also you've linked the same picture twice.

LiE · 25 Mar 2015 at 22:59

I think people go left from the right hand lane because they know people in the left lane will be going left. The issue comes when people go from left lane directly into right lane. It's so common, 1 in 6 cars will be using the right lane to turn left.

Updated the link thanks.

Kaeo · 26 Mar 2015 at 01:40

Geez that second one is bad, no one has priority there. It looks like something used to be written on the filter lane where the lorry is going round, but it's been removed.

Edit: Well, the second (further away) sign as you approach the roundabout shows your left filter lane as a minor road, and the one coming off the roundabout as a major road. I would assume that would suggest those coming off the roundabout have priority. Definitely should have a give way, though.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6...m4!1e1!3m2!1szC4uOiVNTaBuXSBo9_sRTA!2e0?hl=en

Richie · 26 Mar 2015 at 07:03

First pic. 2 lanes entering the roundabout and 2 lanes going off on the exit you state - You should enter and exit on the same lane therefore the people in the right lane can exit on the right lane as well....

The 2nd one is bad but I would treat that "filter" style lane as a give way at the end.... Why they just didnt have a normal roundabout system there I dont know :confused:

xs2man · 26 Mar 2015 at 07:26

Richie said:
First pic. 2 lanes entering the roundabout and 2 lanes going off on the exit you state - You should enter and exit on the same lane therefore the people in the right lane can exit on the right lane as well....

Really? Are you suggesting people in the right lane can exit to the left, in the right hand lane? That is clearly the most stupid suggestion here surely?

Been a while since I last read the highway code admittedly (my bad), but in the absence of road markings to state otherwise, you are entitled to go straight ahead from the left hand lane. The right hand lane should be for right turns, and perhaps straight ahead too, if there is a second exit lane straight ahead.

I do think you would likely need a dashcam to fight your corner if you were sideswiped by a car turning left from the right lane, if you were going straight ahead from the left lane, but only through the laziness of the insurance companies.

Howard · 26 Mar 2015 at 07:45

I would not consider using the right lane to go left on the first roundabout, that's for sure. There's ample time to then move over for the roundabout half a mile up ahead.

The second one, well, like you said I'd just time my filtering so as to merge with the cars approaching from the right. If I was approaching from the right on that roundabout I would leave a sensible gap and be ready to merge with someone (like you) coming from the left. But you know how selfish many people can be

LiE · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:00

Exactly Howard, a couple times there's been no gap between cars coming off the roundabout and no attempt to create one. I've had to come to a stop at that merge point because I simply couldn't filter in. I was actually given the horn by the car behind me when I had to stop, which was odd because my only other choice was to force my way out in moving traffic and possible collide with a car.

I think the trick with the other roundabout is because everyone is turning left lane to left lane, people who travel the route often know this so can take advantage of it by going right lane to right lane. This just screws people who want to then use the right lane. I mostly resort to giving it a bit more power to make sure I'm not along side anyone when I exit.

Svack · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:22

Maybe send an email or letter to the council or highway authority? Not sure which would be responsible for that one, a few arrows or lines on the road would really clear that up!

Richie · 26 Mar 2015 at 18:52

xs2man said:
Really? Are you suggesting people in the right lane can exit to the left, in the right hand lane? That is clearly the most stupid suggestion here surely?

Thats your opinion. If you have 2 lanes entering and 2 lanes exiting then you are meant to stay in the corresponding lane (unless its a spiral roundabout). Therefore entering on the right lane, going into the right lane on the roundabout and exiting on the right lane is doing this....

I would certainly do it.... It happens quite regularly at one near me.

Quartz · 26 Mar 2015 at 19:02

Svack said:
Maybe send an email or letter to the council or highway authority?

Highways Dept, Buckinghamshire County Council, County Hall, Walton Street, Aylesbury, Bucks.

or

http://www.transportforbucks.net/Roads-highways-and-pavements.aspx

Orionaut · 26 Mar 2015 at 20:48

Most of these issues wouldnt exist if people simply adopted the 100 word highway code.

Drive on the left. Make sure you can see and be seen. Keep a constant look out all around. Be aware of signs and regulations and why they are there. Be predictable. Recognise and anticipate danger and keep clear space from it. Always ensure that you can stop within the distance that you know is clear. Develop your skills. Give courtesy, co-operation and space to others. Don't obstruct them. Never take risks, drive unfit or compete with others. Safety is paramount and far more important than priority. Take personal responsibility for your safety and the safety of those nearby. Enjoy.

You do not solve problems simply by imposing more rules!

xs2man · 27 Mar 2015 at 08:38

Richie said:
Thats your opinion. If you have 2 lanes entering and 2 lanes exiting then you are meant to stay in the corresponding lane (unless its a spiral roundabout). Therefore entering on the right lane, going into the right lane on the roundabout and exiting on the right lane is doing this....

I would certainly do it.... It happens quite regularly at one near me.

But that is not the situation here is it? There are ZERO road markings to suggest that the right lane on approach to the roundabout can turn left. So then you are back to the basic rules of the highway code, specifically 185 & 186 - Signals and Positioning.

186
Signals and position

When taking the first exit to the left, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.
When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout
you should not normally need to signal on approach
stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it.

The fact that this roundabout only has 2 exits, left and right, does mean that there should be no chance of anything in the left hand lane carrying on after the first exit, but that doesn't therefore mean it's right to turn left from the right lane. It is no different than a two lane T junction at this point, so unless the road is specifically marked that you can turn left from the right hand lane (which it is not), then you aren't meant to do that.