20mph speed limits - are they actually enforceable

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knip

knip

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So Bristol have today "unveiled" a bunch of new areas that now have a 20mph speed limit.

I thought (ironically I learnt this at speed school :D ) that these were not legally enforceable as that would require the government to change the law. I was told by the people running the course that they were a guideline, and as long as you stuck to 30mph (which is the national speed limit) then the police can't do you for speeding. That's why the signs are smaller in size for example, because if they were the same size as 30mph ones, then the signs would be illegal.

I remember them saying something along the lines of "if you had a crash, they might be able to charge you with dangerous driving if they believed that to be the case, but that as long as you were within 30mph, then they couldn't charge you for speeding."

Does anyone have definitive proof of what the law says? They make it sound like we HAVE to stick to the speed limit, so most people take that as gospel and do, but is it actually the law?

Thanks for anyone's help :)
 
Sounds like total nonsense. If there's a posted limit in place, that's the limit. Why wouldn't they be enforceable?
 
See the police have said they aren't enforcing it

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristol-s-20mph-zones-enforced-police/story-19668468-detail/story.html

Mayor has said this

If you work or live in central Bristol you’ll see that we’ve introduced a 20mph limit on most roads that were previously 30mph in Cabot, Cotham, Clifton, Clifton East, Bishopston and Redland wards from today (21 January).

Following two successful pilots, this is the first of six 20mph schemes to be rolled out across the city over the next 12 months.

We're working closely with our police partners to ensure people accept and understand why they are being asked to drive at 20mph and will be rolling out a number of community speed watch programmes where local people and police monitor speeds.

Driving at 20mph has been proven to significantly reduce the risk and severity of road accidents and impact of speeding on local communities.
 
Does it matter if they are legally enforceable?

If there's a posted limit then do the posted limit and they'll be no issues.
 
Police not going to do it:

Top police officers are telling forces around the country not to enforce 20mph speed limits, Parliament has been told.

The admission from the Association of Chief Police Officers leaves it up to cash-strapped local authorities to enforce the law on their streets as a growing number of cities, including Manchester and Liverpool, move to city-wide 20mph limits.

MPs expressed their astonishment at the disclosure from assistant chief constable Mark Milsom that police had decided against enforcing the lower speed limit in residential areas. “We are not enforcing 20mph speed limits at this moment in time,” Mr Milsom told a Parliamentary hearing into cycle safety.
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http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3705446.ece
 
amigafan2003 said:
Does it matter if they are legally enforceable?

If there's a posted limit then do the posted limit and they'll be no issues.
Click to expand...

The document from the ACPO I listed earlier did explain situations where enforcing a 20mph limit would be counter productive and that was where it was either not correctly signposted or obviously unnecessary. I am not sure if the Bristol speed limits fall into either of those categories.

I am not sure I am entirely comfortable with effectively "Do as you are told" as the solution.
 
Debate seems to be kicking off about the type of road and time of day. In essence the view being that for a small side street lined with houses and parked cars then 20mph may be sensible, but for a major arterial road, particularly at night when there is little traffic and no children around, why restrict the speed limit unnecessarily?
 
You can run faster than 20mph, might as well sell your car if you live in Bristol then.

The only saving grace is the fact that speed limits don't apply to bicycles.
 
There's a road with a 20 limit near me and it's just stupidly slow, and no need for it to be 20 when there is no school. There's also a speed camera there that doesn't work unless you are going well over 30
 
RDM said:
Depending on the situation it may be an entirely appropriate speed. But that is the import difference, any speed limit should be appropriate rather than arbitrary.
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Indeed. Too many are arbitrary at the moment. Many people would keep to the speed limits which do have a good rationale if they all made sense. Loads of NSLs have gone down to 50mph without any accident data and some go down even when the average speed is below 50 anyway (because people are driving to the conditions).
 
Isn't it the case that none of the automatic speed cameras etc have been type approved for 20mph? (I'm fairly sure I read that not too long ago).

In which case I'm guessing unless the local police are willing to place officers on the streets to do it manually, then it's not likely to be enforced as the likes of gatso devices won't be able to do it.

Personally I obey them, but that's at least partly because in general where they are in our town they sort of make sense - and the speed bumps etc they put in at the same time also make going over them at even 20mph potentially uncomfortable in a normal car.
 
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