2ms LED?

tibble89

tibble89

tibble89

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5 Feb 2011
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81
Alrighty! The topic name is my main 'needs', 2ms + LED. I'll mainly be using it for Xbox 360, so minimal input lag as possible. Reasons for wanting LED is to save power and also seem to have slightly better spec. I use VGA cable for xbox+pc but an HDMI port would be nice to be slightly 'future proof'.

My budget would be £200 - anything less, great!

At moment doesn't seem to be much choice, so does anyone know if there will be many of these released in next month maybe? I know LG have something planned.

Thanks a lot.
 
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You're restricting yourself unecessarily by your requirements - formed, no doubt, by misleading marketing hype.

1) Regarding the '2ms' response time requirement -

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=18376397&postcount=9
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=18063350&postcount=3
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=18146423&postcount=4

In short there is no point choosing or disregarding a monitor based on the quoted figure.

2) Regarding the 'LED' -

You have stated that you would like 'LED' because it saves power (this is correct) and also they seem to have slightly better spec (this is part of the misleading marketing). One number which you will most likely see inflated, artificially, in LED-backlit monitors is the dyanmic contrast ratio. That's simply because LEDs can be very finely controlled to give next to no light in a particularly dark scene. That's all well and good - but the more you read about the shortcomings of dynamic contrast the less you will be inclined to use this 'feature'. It is simply flawed in most circumstances and is simply used, alongside the 2ms response time, as a misleading selling point. I have used a number of very fine LED-backlit monitors as of late but it's more because the panels in the monitors themselves have been good - minor tweaks made over their predecessors which were often CCFL-backlit.

Given all that I know and assuming that you do still want an LED-backlit monitor for the energy efficiency I'd take a good look at the LG E2360V. You no doubt dismissed it due to the 5ms quoted response time. I have recently had a chance to use this monitor (briefly) and can confirm that it was comparable to the XL2370 in terms of image quality - one of the best TN panel monitors currently available, in my educated opinion. As stated I didn't properly get to test the responsiveness but you can't gague anything fromt the 5ms quoted. If pixel transitions were a consistent 5ms it would be increadibly responsive - but if the transitions frequently peak far beyond 16ms then things may be a bit more ugly. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=18380539&postcount=2
 
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I mainly use http://www.digitalversus.com for info, and I do realise that there's a lot of marketing techniques they use, but until they're all forced to use same methods to test, then I guess it'll always be hard to actually compare monitors.

If LED isn't that impressive then I'll probably just buy the Iiyama E2210 which has been tested to have 0ms input lag. Even if the difference in milliseconds isn't noticeable, I still don't want to be at a disadvantage
 
The tests used by Digital Versus are overly simplistic and the explanations and justifications for apparent patterns in their results cause a fair bit of confusion - especially regarding response times and input lag. If you look at the kind of length and depth of reviews on my own website and TFT Central you'll appreciate how a proper and informative review should be structured. The Digital Versus 'reviews' are overviews by comparison and in many cases you are better off not reading them. I appreciate that they do 'test' a large range of monitors in the same way and it can give you a quick comparison. But read some of our reviews of a particular monitor and you'll get a much better idea of what to expect.

Take our most recent review of the EA232WMi as an example.

...That aside. I have used and supplied a large number of Iiyama's business monitors from a similar era (and using similar or identical panels) to the E2210. They have been solid all-rounders and very consistent performers. With the exception of some of their early LED-backlit iterations they have displayed good out of the box colour accuracy with smooth gradients and low levels of detectable dithering. Responsiveness has been decent on the whole for 60Hz (in some cases 75Hz) monitors but do remember the limitations expressed in the above post. Build quality has also been pleasing and most importantly the prices have been appealing. According to feedback they also have particularly helpful and polite technical support and customer service in the UK which is a bonus.
 
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Yeah, I understand that, but most gamers are only bothered about response time + input lag, so when they see 2ms response time and <10ms input lag, they'll buy it, even if it means bad viewing angles (TN). Although reading and watching videos about the U2311H it seems it suffers from some backlight bleeding which is my main worry going from CRT to LCD.

Maybe my best bet is to wait a month and see if anything develops, other than LG's LED IPS gaming monitor.
 
Just as a rant at the 'industry' more than anything else --> The more prudent gamers will research things a bit more deeply and discover how hollow, inaccurate, misleading and useless those figures actually are though. It has taken me years of experience and research to truly appreciate that what you see on paper is never, ever going to tell you what you need to know about a monitor. The humble monitor is somewhat unique in its complexity and that's something a lot of people grow to understand (with research, patience and asking the right questions). It isn't like buying a graphics card or a new processor where the benchmarks can tell you pretty much all you need to know to make an informed buying decision. If the values for input lag and quoted response times were as accurate, complete and absolute the frame rate of a game it would make this part of the decision a lot easier for a gamer. Sadly that isn't the case - and of course responsiveness is just one piece of the pie for the more discerning gamer.

Backlight bleeding is the absolute bane of any monitor reviewer's life. It is so inconsistent between individual monitors of the same model that it has a lot to do with luck in many cases. I have bulk ordered a number of U2311H and U2410s for an educational establishment and the backlight bleed-through was no more excessive than on any other modern monitor of the size. Additional concerns such as 'IPS glow' were more immediately apparent with these monitors. OLED monitors should provide a much greater level of consistency (and of course improve quality in practically every area). They just can't come soon enough.
 
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The OLED's do look impressive but surely take a few years before they affordable for all of us.

All reviews depends on opinions though, not facts.. so I don't really like to read them that much. I'd much prefer to read a list of specs and then make my make my own decision. If you read a review of same monitor, one by a gamer and other a graphics designer you will get a different opinion, and I think most reviewers tend to sway more to prefer image quality of IPS rather than TN's response time. Here you seem to get people recommended IPS all the time, but on a console forum I know, they all say the same TN panel, Acer H233H..

Let's just pray they're all forced to change what information they tell us so we can make accurate decisions..
 
Part of the point I was making was that 'facts' are few and far between when it comes to a monitors performance - whether you're talking about responsiveness or image quality attributes. As a reviewer I make sure my opinion is highly balanced - and part of that balance comes from valuable input from various collegues of mine (some of whom you would consider 'serious gamers'). Couple this with my own 'entertainment' slant that anybody familiar with our reviews will know about and you get something far more complete. Unfortunately subjectivity does indeed play a huge part in a monitor and there is simply no alternative to trying things out for yourself. If you look at this review of the highly responsive BenQ XL2410T it goes some way to explaining the fallacies involved with 'input lag' measurements and indeed the need to factor in overdrive algorithms and refresh rate when considering responsiveness. And we wouldn't go to all of that length to write the reviews out if a few figures could tell you what you need to know.
 
I'll have a read..

Also about 120hz, the xbox/ps3 only run @ 60hz, so would having 120Hz make it 'better' in any way, or would it just be the same as a 60Hz monitor?
 
I always end up doing this you know... Going on about something and eventually forgetting the points raised in the original post. :D

Given that you will be primarily using it on an Xbox 360 there is not really any point in splashing out on a 120Hz monitor - as indeed the framerate wouldn't be high enough for it to be of any real benefit. In my second post I gave a few (positive) impressions about the Iiyama you were initially considering (and Iiyama as a company, more broadly). Was there any particular size you were after or was it basically the cheapest most responsive 60Hz monitor you could find (with HDMI)?
 
What do you think about the Samsung P2450H? Looking beyond aesthetics (which you may or may not like) it has good all-round image quality, particularly if you set gamma to mode 2 and do a little tweaking. It is also exceptionally responsive and seems to share a lot in common with the XL2370 in this regard. Not just in terms of low input lag (imperceptibly low according to many) but also pleasingly fast pixel transitions with decent overdrive. It's probably one of the best all-rounders currently on offer and has plenty of connectivity options for the console(s).
 
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Had at look at that one because I do own a Samsung TV which I do like.

As for aesthetics, I don't care that much.. I own a CRT like I said, so I'm not that bothered about style of it.

Another worry is dead pixels, is there any manufacturer which is known for making panels with dead pixels which I should avoid, or is just down to luck which I get?
 
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Really is just luck as far as dead pixels go. They are actually relatively rare on any monitor and if you do get an 'insignificant number' you can send it back under DSR. If you get another with dead pixels you are extremely unlucky but again, you can DSR. If you then get sent another one I'd avoid that model of monitor and make people aware of your issues. The only real problem with DSR, other than time, is that you may have to cover the return postage costs.
 
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