2x2 AP vs 4x4 AP

Firegod · 25 Mar 2024 at 13:55

Hello

Following on from my thread here asking how people deal with DFS channels and interferance from neighbouring devices etc I was pondering whether to do a small refresh and move to a dedicated tri-band AP. This would let me utilise the 6Ghz range. I have x5 devices that could use this band currently and would benefit from having no interference. However, the AP I have my eye on is 2x2 on all 2.4Ghz/5Ghz/6Ghz bands (2SS). My current APs are 2x2 2.4Ghz and 4x4 5Ghz / 6Ghz (can band flex between one or the other).

Would I be shooting myself in the foot moving to a 2x2 AP? I'm worried if something daft like signal range would be impacted at all? Throughput I'm not so worried about if a little slower, I only have 5G broadband so on average ~200Mbps. And I don't even have any 4x4 client devices.

Thanks for any assistance.

Caged · 25 Mar 2024 at 15:27

It benefits throughput and device density rather than range

Firegod · 25 Mar 2024 at 15:36

Caged said:
It benefits throughput and device density rather than range

Thank you for this. I'm thinking then for my home needs it'll be a perfectly acceptable solution, and that it won't have a noticeable negative impact. Device wise I only have (roughly), x3 computers, x2 audio streaming devices, x4 IOT devices, x3 mobile phones, x2 TVs, x2 set top boxes. I'm hoping to recoup some funds and sell the existing APs, as they are only 6 months old.

Dangerous · 26 Mar 2024 at 14:09

I highly doubt you would get the use of a 4x4 AP at home, if the price is minor increase then yeah get it but I wouldn't pay a premium for it.

WJA96 · 27 Mar 2024 at 06:17

Caged said:
It benefits throughput and device density rather than range

Basically this. Think of the channels like a motorway. 4 lanes wide carries more traffic than 2. Up to WiFi5 the channels worked exactly like a motorway with the whole channel having to work at the speed of the slowest device and that’s usually your IoT devices. WiFi6 is a huge improvement but for WiFi5 (IoT devices) more channels is better. With Wifi6E and WiFi7 you upgrade your motorway from a 2 lane urban expressway limited to 40mph to a dual carriageway at 70mph. And the faster traffic can nip past slower traffic.

One way of getting around the IoT Wifi4/5 traffic slow-downs is to fit a completely separate access point for your slower 2.4GHz traffic and broadcast a special IoT SSID from that access point only. IoT SSID goes on channel 1 on one access point and your faster traffic goes on channels 6 or 11 on the other access point(s). This works pretty well. You can pick up truly fabulous used 4x4 2.4GHz access points like the UniFi UAP-AC-HD and SHD for buttons now because everyone wants WiFi6.

Firegod · 24 Aug 2024 at 16:38

WJA96 said:
Basically this. Think of the channels like a motorway. 4 lanes wide carries more traffic than 2. Up to WiFi5 the channels worked exactly like a motorway with the whole channel having to work at the speed of the slowest device and that’s usually your IoT devices. WiFi6 is a huge improvement but for WiFi5 (IoT devices) more channels is better. With Wifi6E and WiFi7 you upgrade your motorway from a 2 lane urban expressway limited to 40mph to a dual carriageway at 70mph. And the faster traffic can nip past slower traffic.

One way of getting around the IoT Wifi4/5 traffic slow-downs is to fit a completely separate access point for your slower 2.4GHz traffic and broadcast a special IoT SSID from that access point only. IoT SSID goes on channel 1 on one access point and your faster traffic goes on channels 6 or 11 on the other access point(s). This works pretty well. You can pick up truly fabulous used 4x4 2.4GHz access points like the UniFi UAP-AC-HD and SHD for buttons now because everyone wants WiFi6.

I kinda made a start on this, granted it isn't to a separate AP, but I've moved all my IoT devices to a guest network with layer 2 isolation. Set a rate limit (5 Mb/s down and 3 Mb/s up) for each device. Then set that SSID to 2.4Ghz. My main SSID is 5Ghz only now and free of IoT devices. Now I just need to work out how to get the Printer working. :cry:

alex24 · 25 Aug 2024 at 16:36

Firegod said:
I kinda made a start on this, granted it isn't to a separate AP, but I've moved all my IoT devices to a guest network with layer 2 isolation. Set a rate limit (5 Mb/s down and 3 Mb/s up) for each device. Then set that SSID to 2.4Ghz. My main SSID is 5Ghz only now and free of IoT devices. Now I just need to work out how to get the Printer working.

I tried something like this and ran into all sorts of, potentially solvable, but time-consuming issues with multicast and connectivity/responsiveness of IoT devices. Many just don't expect to be on their own VLAN and aren't designed to work well that way. Perhaps new standards (Matter?) improve on or avoid this, I'm not sure, but the inter-VLAN rules were also challenging. By layer 2 separation I presume you mean clients on the WiFi cannot talk to one another, but how does this work on LAN/VLANs?

Firegod · 25 Aug 2024 at 17:27

alex24 said:
I tried something like this and ran into all sorts of, potentially solvable, but time-consuming issues with multicast and connectivity/responsiveness of IoT devices. Many just don't expect to be on their own VLAN and aren't designed to work well that way. Perhaps new standards (Matter?) improve on or avoid this, I'm not sure, but the inter-VLAN rules were also challenging. By layer 2 separation I presume you mean clients on the WiFi cannot talk to one another, but how does this work on LAN/VLANs?

Yeah I believe so, I believe the devices on the IoT SSID can't talk to devices on the main SSID because of the seperation. But I haven't gone futher into VLANs, both SSIDs are set to VLAN 1. But yeah it did throw up two issues for me.

1. Printer is only 2.4Ghz so had to go on IoT network. But I need to take a look at the Layer 2 bypass to get it working with my PC.
2. Nest Audio speaker. This one was a b*gger. Would connect but then acted weird with our Spotify Duo account. Then after a reset when I went to set it all up, just refused to connect to IoT network. So currently, this is back on the main network via 5Ghz.

Not too fussed but will try and iron out those two bits when I get time.

Thankfully everything else works just fine. Nest cams, thermostat and tapo smart plugs. And I can still access them and control them from my phone, on the other SSID. Happy days.