4 Channel Amp

Soldato
Joined
12 Sep 2005
Posts
3,652
Location
Norwich, England
I'm after a good quality 4 channel amp that will be fed by a raspberry pi / hifiberry dac running squeezeplay.

It's for a kitchen/diner, 4m X 7m'ish.

Now I was going to just get a 2 channel amp to feed two speakers in a central position but wasn't sure if two speakers over kitchen, and two speakers over seating/dining area would be better.

Mainly because when I'm in the seating area relaxing, drinking, enjoying music ;) I want a good stereo effect, but I guess I could have this with just two speakers, just position them near the seating area.


So really, good 2 channel and 4 channel options would be great. Although I was quite set on the hifiberry amp if I just went two channels.


Thanks
 
Before we go anywhere, we need to understand your budget. Are we talking of £100, £500, £2000?

Haven't seen a 4 channel power amp in a LONG time.

Having said that, I have an old Kenwood integrated (3020se IIRC) that can power 2 sets of stereo speakers. Clearly that's not 4 dedicated channels, only 2*2, but it might meet your needs.
Those old integrateds are usually a good buy s/h as they tend to be reliable and are often good prices.
 
Only ones I've seen really are car amps, most of them are 4 channel but i'm not too familiar with car amps.

Just I want something of reasonable quality and even though cheap the hifiberry amp is meant to be rather good.

Money would depend on how many speakers I was buying really. But a hifiberry amp is about £80 all in, but probably no more than £200, should be plenty.

But maybe with my room I won't even need four speakers....I know my AV amp and MS Mezzo 2's would be fine in there but ceiling speakers I'm not sure.
 
You don't want to be putting car amps in to domestic audio applications. Cars are noisy environments that mask much of the distortion in car audio products.

HiFiberry amp is okay for the money but like all small digital amps it doesn't have the wattage claimed in the adverts. I could go through how and why the derived wattage figure can be torn down but I haven't time at the moment. It's enough to say that the real output power is closer to 3W per channel in to an 8 ohm load.

Any decent integrated Hi-Fi amp with A+B Speaker facility will suit your needs. Have a look at the Pioneer A20 at around £150.
 
I did see that but wasn't sure it was quite what I wanted but I guess it would work, I was more thinking about something hidden away in the loft (hifiberry amp) but this could work.

Speaker A, B, A+B Selector

Does A+B mean it would power both sets at once? Less power I guess though.
 
Less power running two sets of speakers together... yes. But still massively more than a Hi-Fi berry running just one set of speakers alone. Really, the berry isn't even in the same league.

If you need more power than that then any bigger amp with A+B will do.

Unless you have a real Jones for trying a berry amp then a Hi-Fi amp such as the Pioneer or a Yamaha AS501 will walk all over it.
 
Last edited:
Thanks very much dude.

I think I'll get one for the bathroom, I have a monitor audio c165-t2 lined up for in there.

But for the kitchen diner I think the pioneer looks great, possibly a little big but can hide it somewhere handy I'm sure.
 




Any thoughts on speaker placement, 2 or 4? I would like a good sound at the small seating area.

I think two might be enough, would allow me to use B speakers for some patio sound.......
 
Well, the simple stereo pair over the seating area seems to me to be the most logical arrangement for a basic layout.

OCUK%20basic.jpg


But with the right speakers and a good enough amp then there's no reason why you can't have more of the area covered and still have Speakers B output for the garden. Here's some solutions:


This is two stereo pair, one set over the kitchen area.

OCUK%204%20way.jpg



Personally though I think the kitchen area would be better served by a single point stereo speaker.

OCUK%203%20way.jpg



Clearly you can't just wire ordinary 6-8 Ohm inceiling speakers together without changing the load on the amp considerably, so the speaker in the middle and lower layouts have a way of dealing with that. Just to be clear as well, all the above layouts retain Speakers B output for the garden. They only use the Speakers A output for the indoor speakers.
 
Yes another single stereo speaker like I have could work for kitchen area.

I guess though, the one disadvantage to daisy chaining 2 or 4 speakers in zone A is they will always be on, I couldn't just have kitchen or just seating but I don't actually think that would be a problem in my setup as the area isn't huge.


What sort of speakers are they that can handle being daisy chained? I didn't see any mention or it on richersounds. I'd want them to be fairly well matched, looks and soundwise, so when I make treble and bass adjustments they sound similar, just I know the MA 165-t2 I have needs the treble decreased and the bass increased, I think its the double tweeters? Thought it was faulty when I first tested it :D but sounded fine after adjustment.


I quite like the look of the Yamaha rn-301 or Yamaha as501, bit more money than the a20.......


Thanks very much for your help again Lucid.
 
Last edited:
If you're feeling particularly adventurous you can get kit amps from ebay for barely anything. You could buy two and a decent Power Supply and have each one drive a pair. Audio fidelity won't be amazing for ceiling speakers so spending on an expensive amp seems somewhat pointless.
 
Audio fidelity won't be amazing for ceiling speakers so spending on an expensive amp seems somewhat pointless.
Sound quality isn't great from poor quality or inadequate or badly fitted in-ceiling speakers, but that isn't true of all in-ceiling speakers. I have two quick stories that illustrate this...

I did an Hi-Fi and AV install job for the Chief Exec of a small group of hospitals. She is a Hi-Fi enthusiast and wanted some AV to match. She likes to cook and entertain so the kitchen is used a lot. I installed a pair of good quality in-ceilings just driven from Zone 2 of a Yamaha AV amp. A week or so later I was back onsite for some other work. A friend of hers was there too. She came over and said "I was surprised at how good the sound is in the kitchen. I wasn't expecting that." She is also a Hi-Fi enthusiast and has a £1000 Linn front end feeding a pair of Monitor Audio Silver RX2, so the bar was set pretty high.


The other story is from an install I did at a Doctor's house in South Manchester. I was part way through the cinema upgrade when he asked about some kind of streaming audio system for his property in Spain. I said I could give him a quick demo of a Sonos amp but I only had some in-ceiling speakers in the van so they'd just be propped up against a wall and wouldn't sound quite as good as box loudspeakers. I did the demo in his games room. The guy looked visibly shocked. In that room he had a £1500 Bose lifestyle system. A £250 pair of in-ceiling speakers had just blown it away.


Decent in-ceiling speakers won't match the fidelity of good Hi-Fi speakers at the same price. A lot of that is to do with the way the sound fires at the floor rather than straight ahead and also a lack of back compression because the rear of the speakers are open in to a ceiling void or at best a leaky fire hood. However, the driver cones, magnets and crossovers can be just as high quality as their box speaker counterparts. A good pair of in-ceiling speakers are perfectly capable of showing the difference between a mediocre amp and a decent one.


HankMarvin, if you search Ebay for "amplifier kit" then you'll find the sort of gear that M3G4UK is probably referring to. These are cheaper versions of the HiFiberry because the component choices are made on price rather than sound quality. They all share a basic limitation on the real power they can deliver in to a loudspeaker.

If there's one thing that ceiling speakers need it's plenty of clean undistorted power. They're pointing at the floor rather than straight at you as Hi-Fi box speakers would, so straight away they're working at an acoustic disadvantage. You'll notice that the Ebay kit amps don't give a power rating measured in the same way as Hi-Fi amps (RMS @ 8 Ohm, < 0.05% THD, 20 Hz to 20 kHz). That's because if they were honestly rated then you'd be lucky to get 1/10th of the claimed power figures.

Here's an example of that. Velleman is a pretty decent amp kit manufacturer. AFAIK they do some fairly high-end gear too. Their smaller kits are competitively priced against the usual stuff tipping out of China. The Vellema K8060 is a dual mono power amp board kit priced at £15 exc heatsinks, power supplies and pre-amp front end. The claimed power is 70W @ 8 Ohm. That looks respectable enough.

However, if you look at the spec more closely you'll see that there's no distortion figure given and no mention of the test frequency. When they do give a power rating at "Distortion 0.02% @ 1KHz" then the power claim drops to 10W. Once again though this figure misses the crucial impedance. Is this 10W in to 8 Ohms or 4? If it is measured at 4 Ohms then when running in to 8 Ohm the power would halve. Also, 1 kHz test tone doesn't replicate a music signal, and there's no indication if the 10 W figure is instantaneous power (an easy thing to achieve) or sustained (RMS) which is much more difficult.

In the end even with a decent brand kit board the truth will out. These small inexpensive switch-mode-power-supply based amps can't generate clean undistorted power for sustained periods in to a real life reactive load such as a speaker. If you get 5W out of the Velleman on the same terms as the Yam AS501 then you'll be doing well. Meanwhile the Yamaha delivers a minimum of 2 x 85W RMS in to 8 Ohms @ 0.02% THD when driven with a 20 Hz to 20 kHz test tone that replicates real music. Game, set and match to the Yam and other proper Hi-Fi amps.
 
I guess though, the one disadvantage to daisy chaining 2 or 4 speakers in zone A is they will always be on, I couldn't just have kitchen or just seating but I don't actually think that would be a problem in my setup as the area isn't huge.
Yes, you're right. Both areas would always be on. But that's what happens when you're trying to do something while spending as little as possible. There are solutions that would give you control of the individual zones, but they'll cost significantly more (at least 2x - 3x more) than what you're thinking of spending right now. Like you said though, the area isn't big enough for zone control to be an issue.

What sort of speakers are they that can handle being daisy chained? I didn't see any mention or it on richersounds.
RS only carries a limited range of product to suit basic applications in this area. Custom install companies like my own come across the need for a broader range of solutions.

I'd want them to be fairly well matched, looks and soundwise, so when I make treble and bass adjustments they sound similar, just I know the MA 165-t2 I have needs the treble decreased and the bass increased, I think its the double tweeters? Thought it was faulty when I first tested it :D but sounded fine after adjustment.
Well your 165-T2 is going in the bathroom, isn't it? That's being run from a different amp too. So as long as the speakers for the lounge and possibly the kitchen are matched then it doesn't matter if they have more bass and a sweeter treble than the MA speaker, does it? Looks-wise they're all pretty similar once the grille is in place. That's part of the problem that M3G4UK came across. Just because they look similar doesn't mean all in-ceiling speakers are the same. That's why companies like mine are here. We steer the clients to making the best choice. You're getting some of that same advice here, but for free :D

I'm a bit short of time now, but if you want to drop me a trust message then I'll give you some more details on what I think would work for you. There's also at least one forum member, Pug, who has taken up my advice and help with ceiling speakers. I know he's very happy. He might be open to giving you some advice.
 
Sorry yeah I was just using my bathroom speaker as an example of being top end heavy so would need something similar otherwise if mono speakers where bottom end heavy then it would be hard to balance the sound.

I do think I'd like to go down the 2 x mono and 1 x stereo path, think that would be a nice setup.

I'm sure I'll get a sound i'm happy with just like im happy with my main speakers in livingroom and the ceiling speaker I have sounded fine when tested sitting on a shelf.


I was thinking about some vintage look speakers though, would suit the room well but think I'll stick to ceiling ones. Aiming to spend about £4-500 on the two or three speakers.

I might even forget the outside zone to spare the neighbours and I quite fancy a 80's boombox modded to work into my squeeze system.


And I do like the look of those two Yamaha's, probably go for the as501 as I will have the network player part on my raspberry pi, i'd even be tempted to hook up my mezzo 2's to it, would be a lot better than my onkyo 606 i'm sure ;).


Thanks a lot
 
Back
Top Bottom