4 Series vs. C-Class

[Murf]

Hi guys,

I'm currently driving around in the wife's Audi A3 (the 1.4 150bhp petrol) but the time has come to buy my own car. I am torn between the 4 Series GC or a Mercedes C-Class (prefer the coupe but should really get 4 doors so potentially saloon.)

I've test driven the 4 series (was a 435d xDrive) and I've got a test drive of the C-Class lined up for Friday. I wanted to take a straw poll on what you guys recommend, and what I'm potentially missing. But unless the Merc test drive on Friday completely changes my opinion I'm assuming, rightly or wrongly:

4 Series is the better car to drive.
Merc looks nicer, inside and out. Feels more... 'premium'
4 series is more practical (for taking my parents on day trips) in GC form over the coupe.
C-Class can be bought on very competitive PCP deals for 4 pot engines.
4 series 440i is the only realistic way I can get into a 6 cylinder engine for a reasonable price (TRL @ Berry Heathrow deal).

Now, I also drove a 540i (car was too big frankly and used PCP deal not competitive) but absolutely loved the engine. This will mainly be a toy for me (I will be doing less than 10k miles p/a) so my heart says buy the 440i with plenty of options. A C43 after discounts would still be 10k more which would push the PCP payments into wife considering divorce territory I think.

So with 3k down, and roughly ~£450p/m to play with with what would you guys do? C200\C300 premium plus with a couple of choice options or heavily specced 440i GC? Or this being motors, something entirely different?

PS - I've discounted the Audi A5 as I'm 6'3" and when I sat in it, I was sat on it. Even with the seat at it's lowest. Excluding driving experience days I've only ever driven a Fiesta then the subsequent Audi (which the wife bought) so had no idea how awful the driving position in the Audi was compared to the other German marquees. C-Class coupe and 4 Series were a much better fit for me.

So motors, thoughts?

 

[Murf]

After amortising the deposit this works out to be well over 500 quid a month - for a 4 Series? This seems like a lot of money for a car like that.

If you were considering new (you're a huge advocate of 1yr old cars IIRC so disregard that for a second! ) then what medium sized coupe with a 6 cylinder engine would you go for that was cheaper? The TRL deal is 3k down and 400p/m with a decent spec. So it wouldn't have to be over 500p/m with the deposit amortised.

It does seem an awfully expensive way to go - what's to stop you getting an approved used 435i? Pay the same sort of amount per month and it's hard to see how you wouldn't be thousands of pounds better off in terms of what is left in the car after a few years Vs outstanding balance - even if you take out an extended warranty after approved runs out.

Alternatively have you looked at the potential price difference by using a broker then financing through a bank backed PCP? It might not work out massively differently but you should be able to secure a very low apr

The APR would be 2.9% so unlikely I'll find more competitive rates privately. I've not really considered used, I've found the APR to be atrocious, and with the absence of dealer\manufacturer incentives they're not significantly cheaper and lack the specific options I'd want. (ie - digital cockpit, Apple Car Play)

 

[Murf]

Carwow shows smaller discounts for factory orders than the TRL deal. I'm pretty confident in terms of the BMW that the deal itself is very good, even if the financial argument of New vs. Used means in comparison to a Used car it's not great. But getting the exact specification I want is important to me.

Ignoring the financials for a moment, for ball park same money, are there any other cars I should consider? I'm not missing anything blindingly obvious?

 

[Murf]

The new Kia I suppose, but if you want a 4 series / C class I assume it's not in the running

Yeah, despite having a short driving history I'm already clearly a bit of a snob. Plus, if I'm going to make a potentially poor financial decision, it should be for a premium car right?!

 

[Murf]

Wow I've just read up on the Stinger GT. Spec, looks, power, price all look great. Just shows the power of branding (and my own snobbery) that I still don't think I could seriously consider it............

 

[Murf]

I was recently looking at similar options - it's a shame Merc don't do a 4GC equivalent.
Something else to consider - 640d Gran Coupe : around £25k gets you a nice example with good options.

I drove a 5 series on Sunday and frankly I thought it was a little big. I reckon I'd have the same issue with the 6 series. I'm also dead set against diesels.

Exactly - when people ask what car you have, responding with 'Kia' instantly sets perceptions. Having to explain it's the high end fast model will change nothing and send people to sleep

Yup, I think I would seriously struggle with that. And I've just checked the PCP deals and the 440i GC actually works out cheaper (despite the Kia having a much cheaper cash price) so on that basis I'll pass on the test drive I think.

 

[Murf]

There's lots of personal loans out there for around the 3.3% mark up to around £25,00 which with your deposit should put you into a nice year or so old used car and have something to show for it in the end?

That's ~£550 p/m. A little uncomfortable with that. What 1 year old car with similar options to the 440i are you suggesting for 25k?

Reading Murf’s comment above surprised me that he thought the 5 is a big car, then I did a bit of comparison and in many areas (width, height & wheelbase) it’s actually bigger than my e38 7 Series ,which undoubtedly is a big car, the G30 is only 41mm shorter in overall length!

Wow, I hadn’t realised how big the 5 had become...

I've not driven many big cars, but i was surprised by how big it is. However, it seems as if all cars are getting bigger, generation by generation.

 

[Murf]

Yup. Increased sizes of crumple zones. More structural reinforcement to protect the passengers in a crash. More safety features. Turbo + intercooler need to be accomodated.

Also there's a boat load of 140i's, 240i's and also some 340i's on AT for sub 27k. That's assuming the 25k + some sort of deposit.

Makes sense regarding crumple zones etc. . The 1 series platform I've discounted as I want something bigger (I'm aware I complained about the 5 being too big! ). 340i I would be dead set against but I really want Apple Car Play, the digital cockpit and a couple of other specific options. More difficult on second hand cars.

But at the end of the loan you own an asset worth 5 figures.

Ok so it's 2 but...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710190458956?advertising-location=at_cars&minimum-badge-engine-size=2.6&advertising-location=at_cars&maximum-mileage=60000&postcode=s11aa&model=4 SERIES GRAN COUPE&page=1&make=BMW&year-to=2015&fuel-type=Petrol&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New

Very good point. Going new it's quite a premium to pay to get the exact spec you want and a slightly newer car.

Nobody got strong opinions on C Class vs. 4 Series GC? (Let's assume in motors fashion sound financial advice will be ignored )

 

[Murf]

I just can't get over how cheap the interior looks (and if it's anything like the 2-series I had a ride in feels) for a £40k (new/list) car. I know you said the 5-series is too big but it's the same width as a 4GC and what's another 12" in length (fnar) if it gets you a much nicer place to sit?

The 1/2/3/4 interiors are pretty similar I think.

The 540i I drove was the cheapest second hand model in the UK (just by chance) and after haggling I got them down to 5k down and £500p/m on a PCP deal for a 37k 2nd hand model. The lack of dealer\manufacturer contributions and the poor APR on the second hand PCP deal pushed the costs up way too much. It was an outlier for me anyway but thought I'd try it regardless since it was on the forecourt and had the engine I was interested in. I just feel like I'd be stretching further for a car I'm not that interested in. I'd much prefer a 4 series, the interior is from 2012\2013 I think but I don't particularly mind it. It is certainly more cluttered than the A3 I'm in at the moment but once it's all set the way I want I doubt that would matter.

 

[Murf]

I had a similar choice (although looking at 3 series v C-Class Saloons) and plumped for a C250d Merc. I discounted any of the BMW GC models as frankly I find them ugly as sin. If you need the space, buy an estate.

In terms of comparisons, the BMW was certainly a more involving drive, there's no argument there. However to my eyes the Merc is a slightly better looking car externally (at least in AMG Prem Plus spec as mine is) and the interior is leagues ahead of the BMW - even withstanding the 'stuck on tablet' on the dash. If you're looking at buying new, I'd wait until March as the uprated CClass will be available then. It has slightly larger screen and a few other changes to the COMAND interface to do with touch sensitivity IIRC.

The problem with Mercedes is that there's such a price gulf between their 4-pot engines and anything more powerful. Like you, I looked at a C43 but decided the performance gain wasn't worth the extra cost. Although I am now planning a C63 at some point in the future

Really helpful, thank you. . The Merc definitely looks better inside and out, just a shame the C43 is so much more than the 440i. I actually think the 4 Series GC is a good looking car, just not quite the same as the Merc.

No to the Lexus.

 

[Murf]

A5/S5 not on the list?

Sat in an A5, seating position was all wrong. I'm 6'3" and just felt like I was sat on the car so I discounted it on that basis. S5 would be the same problem and about 10k more than a similar specced 440i after discounts.

Everyone's circumstances and preferences are different though. In the OPs position, assuming affordability is fine, the new deals are to good to ignore on these.

Yeah affordability is fine. The car payments and all associated costs will be entirely absorbed by a payrise. I'm fully aware the total cost of ownership will be much higher on a new car via PCP than a second hand 1 year old model. However I'm comfortable with that on the basis I get the exact car I want with some very specific option requirements and significantly less hassle. Does that justify the increased total cost of ownership? Probably not but this way I'm getting the car I want and I know it would grate on me if I didn't have the right options. Heart over Head.

BMW are being very copy paste with their interiors tbh
4 series interior lacks any specialness compared to c class

100% agree. Inside and out the Mercedes styling is much better. But if it drives worse and is missing 2 cyclinders, then I'll happily accept the BMW interior. Driving position, handling, seating position, options are more important.

Well for one, you don’t get RSI when using iDrive like you get when using that fiddly Mercedes system. Who thought it was a good idea to hide the scroll wheel under the oversized touch thingy.

Agreed. iDrive (and Audi's system) are great. The Mercedes one seems poor, and looks ridiculous in contrast to the rest of the interior.

 

[Murf]

Well, after a couple more test drives I landed on the 4 Series 440i Gran Coupe. Order placed, expecting delivery early March. Very excited. It will be the first car I've owned (well, it's on PCP but let's not get into that debate again ) and the first 6 cylinder car I'll have driven (barring test drives) on public roads. Should be awesome.

I added the M Sport Plus package, adaptive dampers, and a whole host of other options. I think I've ticked off all of the important ones though.

 

[Murf]

Congrats

What did you end up paying as a deposit and per month?

I knew that would be the only question. . They quoted me 4k down and £430 p/m for the 440i GC M Sport Auto with adaptive dampers, folding mirrors, digital cockpit and M Sport Plus package. That was the same spec as TRL was quoting for £400 a month. I was happy they got that close so decided to go with it. Then roughly £22p/m for every thousand pound of options I threw on top of that.

Flame away.

 

[Murf]

Service pack and GAP insurance. So I'm still a little down more than likely but I valued being able to drive 10 mins down the road to the dealer to go through everything.

 

[Murf]

How much per month inc. all the extras? Sounds like the £430 p/m wasn't the final amount you agreed on, or am I not reading your post properly?

You are reading my post correctly, it wasn't the final amount. My only frame of reference for a good deal was the TRL online quote so I had them quote me the same spec (with the insurance\services) and since they got that close I threw on about £4k more options I think.

Got to £502p/m. The additional extras were:

Icon LED Adaptive Headlights
Apple Car Play
Innovation Package (HUD, Traffic sign recognition, WIFI, enhanced bluetooth, driving assistant)
Extended storage
Split folding rear seats
Heated Steering wheel
Electric Lumbar Support

(M Sport Plus included upgraded brakes, wheels, Harmon Kardon, High Beam Assistant, Sun Protection glass)

 

[Murf]

Wow, that price doesn't include all the extras? Was it worth doing PCP Vs. PCH if you aren't making any saving, especially given that the balloon at the end will be quite large, vs. the value?

I didn't look into leasing in much detail. Most leases were north of £400p/m with 6 months down and no options. So unlikely I'd have managed a comparable lease and I want the option of buying the car at the end. The wife's car will most likely be replaced with an electric so I may end up keeping this long term.

I've watched for years people rip into car buyers on here for their financial decisions, it's a much less pleasant experience being on the end of it.

Anyone got any thoughts on the driving assistant? Some online reviews reckon it's intrusive and competent drivers will switch it off. It just happened to come bundled with the HUD, enhanced bluetooth, speed limit signs and WIFI which I wanted so thought why not.

I didn't go for comfort access in the end, I'd already gone daft with the options and I've heard too many horror stories about cars been broken into relatively easy if they have it.

 

[Murf]

So how much did they knock off the list price with all those extras? Base M sport is £44k right?

Just over 10k.

Congrats on the order and good luck with the wait. I drove one of these before deciding on another Audi A6 in July. They're really nice cars and imo look far better than a Mercedes C Class. 4 series with the new hex headlights is still very rare around me, in fact I've only seen one car with them specced.

What colour is it?

Estoril Blue. I think the hex headlights are only if you spec the ICON LED adaptive headlights? I could be wrong tho. The LCI was March 2017 so it may be on all cars from then.