40D upgrade...

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I'm looking to upgrade from my very reliable 40D and going full frame. I've been finding the auto focus struggling a bit of late, particularly in low light, lots of pictures just out of focus has been the stimulus. Took loads of pictures whilst chasing lemurs in Madagascar and a significant number were just not quite right, but not enough at the time that I could notice it in camera. I also need more weatherproofing, I've got away with it with my 40D

Looking at the 6D, it looks like a very good bit of kit, though I was disappointed at the lack of auto focus points. My 40D has 9 cross-type points, the 6D only 1 central cross and 10 normal ones. Is this as likely to hamper me as much as I suspect it would?

It is a shame because otherwise the 6D looks very good. I like the built in wifi, GPS is nice and it seems to take superb low light pictures. For the price, it looks a great deal but I'm worried about the lack of focus points.

As a result I'm probably going to go for the 5D Mark iii, even though its a bit heavier and more expensive. I do lots of wildlife and action photography and I think I'll suffer with the 6D.

Has anybody had any experience of both who could maybe talk me into saving myself a few hundred pounds?

 

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I really wouldn't worry about that too much, I tried the 6D and I have a 50D and the outer points kicked the backside out of my 50D for locking focus in lower light. Whether 10 is enough for you that's the real issue.

Go and try one, if you can find a store that actually lets you test one these days

That's part of the problem, it's an awful lot of money to spend without trying!

I want move on from the 40D, the focus just doesn't seem to cut it. And I need the weather sealing too, I think I've been lucky in not breaking my 40D so far, my holidays tend to involve humidity and dirt!

I had expected to be paying around £2k, so 5D iii is doable and my lenses will be fine with FF.

 

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Do use matrix focusing or do you manually pick the focus point you want the camera to use... Struggling to see how you would get wildlife out of focus so often... Any samples of a failure to see what the issues is ? Do you have the same trouble when using the centre focus point only ?

Will try and put up couple of pictures later. Changed to the centre point to try and get it to focus, admittedly was not great lighting but even so I thought it would have been able to. But more disturbingly, I did notice that when I was in bright sunshine in Mexico recently, it wouldn't focus against the coastline - I ended up having to change to single point and One Shot as AI Focus or Servo just hunted and hunted.

I can understand why in dim light it might struggle, but the contrast between sky, land and sea should be enough to allow focus, surely?

 

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Matrix focusing? What is this

The 40D has a very capable AF system. I've not had any issues with it really. The newer full frames offer more accurate AF and if you're mostly using a single AF point instead of multiple/zone then it's fairly easy to use the likes of the 6D. I've not checked but I'd also expect the centre AF point to be more sensitive in low light than the 40D as well.

From reading around, it certainly looks like the centre point on the 6D is superb at focussing in poor lighting, perhaps better than the 5D Mk iii. However it does look like the camera is let down (am I being too harsh?) by the very simple and limited number of other focus points. Aside from the centre point, the rest of the 6D's points are horizontal only? I'm just worried that I'll end up with a camera that is otherwise great but won't allow me to focus adequately other than with the centre point, which is not always possible.

 

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That's because you are thinking that the 6D outer focus points will react with a similar degree of accuracy as your 40D. It won't, again I have a 50D and the outer points on the 6D picked up moving targets in lower light as well as my center point on my 50D. Will it rival the 5D3, of course not but again try before you buy.

It gets to the point where you have to give up reading pages and pages in magazines/internet and go real world test for yourself to see if equipment is right for you

That's where it gets difficult, as most places won't let you try a camera that you're about to spend 2K on, couldn't imagine buying a 2K car without taking it for a test drive first!

And re the above point about centre focus and having to recompose, I have found that it won't focus even on centre point sometimes, annoying when things are happening in front of you and I need to be able to point at the target and have it focus immediately. It did when I first bought it, so perhaps there is a defect in the autofocus system, but it is 5 years old now!

 

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DP, I'm basically wanting the best image quality I can, but without being able to justify the £4000 for the 1D X. All my lenses are EF, though I could see myself getting a longer telephoto in the future.

I guess a little of the problem is that I shoot lots of different things, from landscapes to action sports to wildlife, then I might be shooting for a friend's party. If it wasn't that I quite like the idea of the HD video facility of 6D/5DMk3 etc, then I'd probably go for a second hand 1DS Mk3 or similar. I was almost taken by the 6D, but I keep going back to the focus points. What would be perfect would be if I could try it for a few months.

If there is anybody who has a 6D and has noticed good or bad points about the focussing other than with the centre point, I'd like to hear.

 

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I've just upgraded from the 40D to the 7D, very happy so far. I did try the 6D but it doesn't feel as good as the 7D plus it doesnt have the joystick.

Aside from the joystick, how did it not feel so good?

 

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I'd rather spend a bit more now ie on the 5D than buy the 7D and wish I'd actually bought the 5D in a few months time. I've bought (I hesitate in this case to say) cheaper and regretted it and then struggled to justify buying what I should have bought originally.

I think I'm going to end up with the 5D, it's just a case of finding a decent price. It becomes that dilemma of second hand off the Bay, or a few hundred pounds more from a shop for the service and peace of mind!

 

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Sounds like decided anyway, so struggling to see what the questions is..... Would still like to see some of these out of focus pictures, assuming the camera isn't broken I not convinced it not a technique issue.... Which will be present in any new camera.....
Going full frame could mean you need bigger/longer lenses for wildlife as you will loose the increase gained with crops sensors..... Something to factor into your budget.....

I wasn't decided, but having looked around at various (perhaps too many) reviews, maybe I am now.

re the autofocus, I will try and post some photos when I get enough time on my Mac not my phone to dig them out. The problems focussing with coast line etc do suggest there maybe a problem with the auto focus system and perhaps the lemur focussing was a combination of bad light and bad technique, I'm certainly no pro.
But I am looking to upgrade, the video function looks a useful tool to have and my 40D is getting on a bit. How I've managed to keep the weather out of it, heaven only knows, so I really need something weather sealed.

It's tempting to be drawn in by things like the GPS and wifi, but with things like Eye-fi, I suspect they are gimmicky.

 

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Sounds like decided anyway, so struggling to see what the questions is..... Would still like to see some of these out of focus pictures, assuming the camera isn't broken I not convinced it not a technique issue.... Which will be present in any new camera.....
Going full frame could mean you need bigger/longer lenses for wildlife as you will loose the increase gained with crops sensors..... Something to factor into your budget.....

These are some pics I took.

ISO 100 f/9 1/200 35mm on EF 24-105

IS 100 f/8 1/400 105mm on EF 24-105

ISO 800 f/7.1 1/8s 75mm on EF 75-300

Going back through them, I actually ended up taking a lot of photos with manual focus as it kept hunting. Probably, at least partly, due to low light, though it didn't seem particularly dark at the time.

They are taken with a coupe of lenses, I don't know if the EXIF data is embedded, can type it in if needed.

Your opinion would be appreciated, thanks.

P.S. these are directly from the unchanged RAW images with no adjustments

 

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Any idea how you export from Aperture with Exif data? I thought there was an option that I ticked to keep the info with it. I can type it in when I get home if not.

Edit: Updated pictures with some of the EXIF data, let me know if need more. All the focus points were pretty much middle of the picture so I would have thought would have covered the important focus points.

So is it just bad technique? I've never had an issue with focus before, have taken thousands of motorsport and wildlife photos that are beautifully in focus. And in the case of motorsport, cars coming directly at me at 150-200mph, the autofocus seemed to cope fine.

 

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So decided to get the 5D. First impressions, wow!!

Going back to University now to figure out the things you can change in the menu- makes the 40D look like a toy in comparison. Must be a hell of a shock going from xxxD to this!

Now just need to convince this missus that its the same camera I've had all along...

 

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Unless she's a camera fan then you'll have no problem at all

She can manage her iPhone! I try and teach her but she gets upset at using RAW, she just wants the ionised JPEGs!

 

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I agree with the shutter speed comments, I didn't realise until I posted how slow the shutter speed was!

I felt though with the others that they just weren't quite in focus. Focus points are middle of the picture pretty much. With the lemur, I felt that there was fur in better focus than the eyes.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much? I did have quite a lot of throw aways, maybe related to the lw lying affecting focus rather than a problem with the camera.

Anyways, 5D now, onwards and upwards! Weekend off for a few photos...

 

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/1400s should be OK but given the focal length and exposure then I would have switched IS off completely.

Assume you mean 1/400s?

Had never really thought about turning off IS, but now I think about it, it makes sense that if the shutter speed is sufficiently high, shake shouldn't be an issue.

So you feel in bright sunshine with high speeds, then IS is really a waste of time (and battery power)?

I've always felt i "muddled" along with my old camera, perhaps relying on luck rather than necessarily judgement to get good photos. I really need to make sure that I justify the 2K on a new camera and make an effort to use it to its full potential.

It's when you get comments like these, that you realise sometimes how blindingly obvious some of these things are, but until someone points it out to you...

 

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Snip
this is a good read:
http://bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm

Appeals to the geek in me! Does make sense and is actually blindingly obvious! Amazing how these misconceptions seat themselves in your mind.

Looking forward to getting out at weekend. Taken a few of cat which look very nice!

Autofocus options are immense compared to my old 40D, think will take a good while to get used to and make the most of.

 

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9designs2 - I agree it is easy to treat it like a point and shoot. In the past I've never really tried too hard to fiddle with things like focus points and metering, other than set centre point (like in photos above).

But the 5D seems to have so many options that I'm just itching to get at and fiddle with. Trial and error and what seems like the hundreds of resources on t'interweb, including very helpful on this here forum.