76 trans children at one school

Soldato
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The main issue now that holding an alternative view now puts you at risk of losing your job, having a criminal record or public ridicule which puts us in the very worst waters a society can fall into.

The irony is as a majority of the British public are being gagged for even the most benign of views, other sections of society are openly espousing beliefs that belong in the 1800s.

Lesbians banned from Pride parades for rejecting that a man can be a lesbian or saying that a penis cannot be female. Young girls who would grow up to be lesbian being put through what can only be described as Conversion Therapy and convinced they're boys. It's scary stuff and a million miles away from the question of whether some adult decides he wants to pretend to be a woman.
 
Soldato
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I think it's clear from the thread that very few of us have a problem with someone wanting to dress differently or call themselves a different name. We have issues with puberty blockers for children and the removal of protections for women. Example, Morgane Oger in Canada who has waged a years-long campaign against a women's refuge because they wouldn't let his friend (also a trans woman) be a rape counsellor there and has cost the centre a fortune in legal fees trying to defend their right not to mix men in with female rape and domestic violence victims. Being fined for calling someone a man. Things like that.

Indeed,

I am something of a libertarian.

If some bloke wants to wear a dress and answer to the name of Jennifer, then fine, as long as this doesn't impact on me, I am happy for him.

But, at the same time, I maintain the right to think he is nuts and insist that he has no contact with my children. Nor should I be obliged to provide him with employment or have any other contact with him.

I also do not think I should be under any moral or legal obligation to pander to his insanity.

(Or a financial one either, via taxes)

I also object to the liberal types claiming that the fact that I refuse to pander to other peoples delusions is evidence that I am the one that has a mental illness (IE the <something>phobia issue)
 
Soldato
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I also do not think I should be under any moral or legal obligation to pander to his insanity.

(Or a financial one either, via taxes)

I'll re-post this then from the Canadian school book aimed at 11-12yr olds, with a couple in particular highlighted by me. Examples of "transphobia".

trans.jpg
 
Man of Honour
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Do you guys ever play any Aerosmith covers?


When she announced the change my first words were "I'm not happy, I don't want anybody in the backing band with bigger boobs than me" to which she replied "Maybe in 6 months".
I also told her that because she was now a lady she can still carry her own drums.
I then said, you do realise that one of the songs we are doing is Man, I Feel Like A Woman by Shania Twain and she said that is OK but I then said, I'll draw the line at Dude Looks Like A Lady.
She is lucky that she has had lots of counseling so realises what's coming and then she's got all her family on her side, all her friends and band members, the only people not along with it are her real Dad and her girlfriends parents.
 
Soldato
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Indeed,

I am something of a libertarian.

If some bloke wants to wear a dress and answer to the name of Jennifer, then fine, as long as this doesn't impact on me, I am happy for him.

But, at the same time, I maintain the right to think he is nuts and insist that he has no contact with my children. Nor should I be obliged to provide him with employment or have any other contact with him.

I also do not think I should be under any moral or legal obligation to pander to his insanity.

(Or a financial one either, via taxes)

I also object to the liberal types claiming that the fact that I refuse to pander to other peoples delusions is evidence that I am the one that has a mental illness (IE the <something>phobia issue)

Absolutely spot on. I have serious concerns about the Mermaids Charity in primary schools and frankly should be banned from sending in any literature or any kind of presence and our children need to be protected
 
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I understand there needs to be a balance so that applicable information is given so that hatred doesn't arise i just don't feel that primary school is the right starting place and everybody needs to be able to debate the issue including the unpleasant minority in society an atmosphere of calling any dissenters "phobic" will create hatred and frustration. I'm not pretending i have any answers i know very little about the transexual world so am not qualified to suggest anything. This modern sledgehammer tactic in silencing opponents is not the right way to go and i think the only result of it is resentment and anger which ultimately will cause the very thing they are trying to stop.
 
Soldato
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I understand there needs to be a balance so that applicable information is given so that hatred doesn't arise i just don't feel that primary school is the right starting place and everybody needs to be able to debate the issue including the unpleasant minority in society an atmosphere of calling any dissenters "phobic" will create hatred and frustration. I'm not pretending i have any answers i know very little about the transexual world so am not qualified to suggest anything. This modern sledgehammer tactic in silencing opponents is not the right way to go and i think the only result of it is resentment and anger which ultimately will cause the very thing they are trying to stop.

Agreed.
 
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That's nice to hear.

I don't get why people have to make it an issue for themselves. If it matters the person happy and allows thet to live how they want then I don't understand what the problem is.

1) Lying. Sex and gender are not the same thing.

2) Group identity politics and the resulting irrational prejudice and discrimination.

3) Extreme sexist stereotyping and rigid gender roles, which is of course an absolute requirement when pretending that sex and gender are the same thing.

4) Authoritarianism.

4) Targetted manipulation of children in support of 1,2, 3 and 4.

5) People being pressured into sex they don't want in order to support (1) and (4) in particular. So, for example, a person who's not sexually attracted to men is rather unlikely to want a penis in their mouth or any other part of them. That's now called "transphobic". Declining that sex could cost a person their job, their career, their social status, their future prospects (because it'll remain on record as a hate offence). It might result in the police phoning them to "check their thinking". If things continue as they are, it might result in them being jailed. Writing "a person who's not sexually attracted to men is rather unlikely to want a penis in their mouth or any other part of them" is now classed as hate speech. And no, I am not joking. It's not yet illegal hate speech in this country, but it is a "non-crime hate incident" and if noticed it will be recorded as a hate incident and the number of "hate incidents" is being used to promote the ideology further.

6) Extreme pressure, up to and including force and threats, to prevent people being allowed to "live how they want". The ideology is utterly opposed to that. It's a cult mentality - members are not allowed to leave and extreme pressure will be applied to any of them who try.

7) Extreme pressure, up to and including libel campaigns designed to ruin the victim's life, physical assault and death threats, against anyone not wholly obedient to all of the above.

Do you understand what the problem is now?
 
Soldato
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Open University had to cancel a conference due to threats and intimidation by Trans Activists. The conference was on prison reform. This was because the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies (CCJS) was the co-organizer and the CCJS position is that MtF trans prisoners (who are disproportionately convicted for sexual violence crimes, incidentally) should not be housed with women.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/educati...cel-conference-following-threats-transgender/

It's about twenty minutes long, but Rose of Dawn is a non-TRA trans person who does a periodic round-up of TRA activities that is pretty good for anyone interested.
 
Soldato
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1) Lying. Sex and gender are not the same thing.

2) Group identity politics and the resulting irrational prejudice and discrimination.

3) Extreme sexist stereotyping and rigid gender roles, which is of course an absolute requirement when pretending that sex and gender are the same thing.

4) Authoritarianism.

4) Targetted manipulation of children in support of 1,2, 3 and 4.

5) People being pressured into sex they don't want in order to support (1) and (4) in particular. So, for example, a person who's not sexually attracted to men is rather unlikely to want a penis in their mouth or any other part of them. That's now called "transphobic". Declining that sex could cost a person their job, their career, their social status, their future prospects (because it'll remain on record as a hate offence). It might result in the police phoning them to "check their thinking". If things continue as they are, it might result in them being jailed. Writing "a person who's not sexually attracted to men is rather unlikely to want a penis in their mouth or any other part of them" is now classed as hate speech. And no, I am not joking. It's not yet illegal hate speech in this country, but it is a "non-crime hate incident" and if noticed it will be recorded as a hate incident and the number of "hate incidents" is being used to promote the ideology further.

6) Extreme pressure, up to and including force and threats, to prevent people being allowed to "live how they want". The ideology is utterly opposed to that. It's a cult mentality - members are not allowed to leave and extreme pressure will be applied to any of them who try.

7) Extreme pressure, up to and including libel campaigns designed to ruin the victim's life, physical assault and death threats, against anyone not wholly obedient to all of the above.

Do you understand what the problem is now?
I haven't been following this thread closely so I don't know what references these points refer to so I won't try and delve into them.

There may well be an issue in a number of schools, but from my experience of knowing trans adults, there's no secret agenda or any of what you listed, they're just people at the end of the day. They don't believe sex and gender are the same thing. They do primarily socialise with those of a similar background but that's most likely due to prejudice they've received from cisgender people, I'm not sure this is particularly surprising.

As I said, I haven't followed the thread to know the sources of information for the points relating to pressure you mate so I won't address them.

Thanks for replying though :)
 
Soldato
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I haven't been following this thread closely so I don't know what references these points refer to so I won't try and delve into them.

There may well be an issue in a number of schools, but from my experience of knowing trans adults, there's no secret agenda or any of what you listed, they're just people at the end of the day. They don't believe sex and gender are the same thing. They do primarily socialise with those of a similar background but that's most likely due to prejudice they've received from cisgender people, I'm not sure this is particularly surprising.

As I said, I haven't followed the thread to know the sources of information for the points relating to pressure you mate so I won't address them.

Thanks for replying though :)

This thread's not really about trans people. It's about trans activism. Watch that Rose of Dawn video I posted earlier or go back to page 4 or 5 to start picking up on some of what's been discussed. It's about freedom of speech, it's about the elimination of women's sports and people like Morgane Oger trying to destroy a women's refuge or Open University having to cancel a conference on Prison Reform because their associate organisation is against mixing men and women in prison just because the man in question decides he's a woman now. It's about conversion therapy on gay children, which is what is being promoted by groups like Mermaids and regressive sexual attitudes.

You've come to this like pretty much everyone else does: "I'm a decent person, why shouldn't people be able to identify how they like". But that's not what is happening here. We can't repeat a 30+ page thread, but if you're coming in at the end of it, there's really no way to know what we're talking about than to go back some way and read a bit of it.
 
Man of Honour
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I haven't been following this thread closely so I don't know what references these points refer to so I won't try and delve into them.

There may well be an issue in a number of schools, but from my experience of knowing trans adults, there's no secret agenda or any of what you listed, they're just people at the end of the day. They don't believe sex and gender are the same thing. They do primarily socialise with those of a similar background but that's most likely due to prejudice they've received from cisgender people, I'm not sure this is particularly surprising.

As I said, I haven't followed the thread to know the sources of information for the points relating to pressure you mate so I won't address them.

Thanks for replying though :)

You're talking about trans people.

I'm talking about trans advocates/activists.

Very different things. The latter are just using the former as tools to gain power.

I'll illustrate with a few questions for you:

Do you think it's wrong for a person to be "white"?
Do you think it's wrong for a person to be a white supremacist?
Do you understand the difference between those two things?

There isn't a secret agenda - like all group identity politicians, they are not trying to hide the fact that they are group identity politicians. It wouldn't work if they did.

You freely admit that you haven't read the thread and thus don't know what it's about...so why are you posting as if you knew what was going on? You're arguing from a position of ignorance and that's never a good idea.

I know people who are transgender. By some measurements, I'd be called transgender. My own position is that I don't care about gender because it's either fake or a trend that is therefore irrelevant to any individual and it's contantly changing and it's a vast multitude of spectrums. Like everyone else, I am masculine and feminine to varying degrees in various ways at various times. Gender simply isn't a useful concept, so I ignore it. At best it's useless and more often it's harmful. It's only genuine application is for statistical use for selling stuff to people, but even that's almost always a self-fulfilling prophecy sort of thing. For example, here and now a company will reach a larger market by marketing cosmetics to appeal to a feminine market. But that's just current fashion. It's not a real thing, i.e. there isn't any real, biological, connection between "female" and "cosmestics".

I might know people who are transexual - I don't know or care. I'm fine with the idea of a person changing sex, on the basis that close enough will do. Some hormones, some surgery, close enough for me. It's difficult, perhaps impossible, to really nail down a completely accurate definition of sex so "close enough" is fine by me. If it's enough like a duck, it's a duck.

You can continue to argue from a position of ignorance and dismiss me because of your own ignorance, but you're not doing yourself any favours by doing so.
 

Deleted member 66701

D

Deleted member 66701

Absolutely spot on. I have serious concerns about the Mermaids Charity in primary schools and frankly should be banned from sending in any literature or any kind of presence and our children need to be protected

Interesting choice of word.
 
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