Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by G-MAN2004, Nov 27, 2018.
So now you have an understanding on what this thread is about what are your thoughts ?.
Yet also not making any legitimate point against the prevailing outlook.
You show a load of pics of "hot" trans folks. That's fine. They look like women. Really well.
But they aren't women.
Nobody's saying they should be burnt at a stake or treated with disrespect -- but the single fact remains that they aren't women.
The thread itself is not anti-trans. It's anti letting activists into classrooms where they can convince a six-year-old that because they like cooking they're actually a girl.
I totally agree that carrying out medical procedures when someone is too young to tell if they are really trans is probably not a good idea. People keep saying the thread is about that but there are tons of posts that aren't.
I don't agree with this though.
I don't think it's known what causes gender dysphoria but I think that one theory is it that it's caused by being affected by too much of the opposite hormones while in the womb, that sounds plausible to me.
1) They're irrelevant to this thread, which is about an ideology.
2) Are you talking about transexual or transgender? Or do you believe that sex == gender?
A large majority of "trans people" have not changed sex. They've changed gender. Sort of, depending on how much importance you place on gender and how discrete you think it is and how fixed you think it is.
Its likely that there isn't just one cause for people identifying as being other than their biological sex or presenting in a non typical gender fashion.
It's not surprising that there doesn't appear to be much recent research into the actual causes of the above given the political fallout that would follow if the findings pointed to the 'wrong' conclusions.
For the so called 'male to female / M2F' trans people (I. e biological men that identify as women) one hypothesis is that far from actually suffering from gender dysphoria (a state of unease or dissatisfaction) that some are actually presenting with a fetish...
This loosely translates from Latin into English as...
'Love of one's self as a woman'
As the above translation would suggest ('love of one's self) this is a condition that would have a heavy overlap with narcissism .
It also fits well with some of the observable facts.
The appearance of lots of m2f identifying people who often present an exaggerated image of contemporary feminine norms.
The tendency for a perhaps disproportionate amount of m2f identying people to have backgrounds in areas like the military, athletics and computing.
(for example if the idea for the source of all m2f identifying people was being exposed to too much female hormones in the womb causing a 'feminising' affect on the subject then this would seem at odds with male Olympic athletics champion Bruce Jenner's accomplishment physically before he became Caitlyn Jenner)
And the apparent massive over representation of m2f identifying people who also identify as being 'lesbian' (even whilst retaining male genetalia in many cases) hence we have the scenario where cis lesbian women are told they are being transphobic for stating they will not have sexual relations with m2f identyfying people.
An example of the above is the rather infamous YouTube poster Riley Dennis.
A good photographer and Photoshop can achieve wonders! Heck, you don't even need to be a skilled photographer these days, half the girls on Instagram are manipulating their images. Putting too much emphasis on a static image is a fools errand.
I've met some transsexuals who can -at a casual glance- pass for a woman. Certain builds, face shapes and racial groups make that feat much easier to achieve. I don't think I've met one who could pass when under more intense scrutiny though, some things just cannot be hidden. But whether they can pass or not is moot. It's not convincing another person you're female that makes you so. If a man on the internet convinces another he's a woman, does he become one? No.
If you are born XY, you're a man. That cannot be changed. If you're one of the rare number of people who are XXY, then it's a bit trickier, but curiously few of those people are transsexuals.
Even Photoshop and skilled photographers have their limitations
And that's where most decent people come from on the subject. It's certainly where I came from. An attitude of "if it doesn't hurt anyone, why shouldn't they be allowed to live how they like". And that is still how the majority here think and should do. The difference is the realisation that there's something else going on here that exploits that preconception. I apologise for the amount of blow-back that you've received in this thread. I think your reaction is most people's reaction. But if you had read the thread you'd have seen very little of it is to do with that. There's even a term for it: "Peak Trans". The moment someone goes from "trans people should be allowed to live as they wish" to "wait - this TRA knocked a sixty year old woman to the ground and began kicking her because she said he was a man? And the court reduced his fine because in the court she called her attacker 'him'?" or "this 8 year old girl has been told by adults that she has a 'boy brain' because she likes cars?" or "lesbians have been banned from a pride march because they said that they're only attracted to actual women?" There's a lot going on here. Again, I'm sorry for the blow-back you've gotten. I think many are frustrated with how the TRA movement uses a camouflage of "we just want to live our lives" to cover what is, I use these terms with full awareness, child abuse, conversion therapy and misogyny. Like, actual misogyny - not the "this female cleaner doesn't get paid the same as this male computer programmer" misogyny.
I don't think there are tonnes of posts. I recall a couple from someone. And I shut them down hard. The post you actually quoted by Orionaut said he shouldn't be under legal obligation to "pander to his insanity." That's not inaccurate when you have someone like Morgane Oger suing you because you said he was a man. Orionaut also said he should be able to refuse them access to your kids. That's again reasonable if you look at what groups like Mermaids are actually targeting at children (covered previously).
The thread has on the whole been gratifyingly on topic.
It correlates very strongly with autism. As does anorexia - another body dysmorphia disorder. There's no evidence it's due to any imbalance of "opposite hormones" in the womb. It also disproportionately affects young girls, like anorexia. And like anorexia whilst it doesn't necessarily entirely go away, it does typically go into remittance in adult life reflecting people becoming more comfortable with their bodies. Around 80% of trans identified children stop defining as trans later on. This rate drops to near 0% for those who are put on clinical pathways and medical intervention, however.
GD is also not the majority of TRAs. Most GD people are quite reserved and just want to be left to live their life how they want. The majority of TRAs in my experience are AG. I.e. auto-gynephile. Unlike Gender Dysphoria this typically manifests in later life and the AGs I've known (three personally, the rest of my opinion is informed by the online Trans movement), are very manipulative and aggressive. The difference between AGs and GDs is stark.
A number of academics have suffered serious career consequences for looking into topics that the trans lobby don't like. In particular de-transitioning. This thread has quite a few examples.
All of your post is spot on, but this part in particular gets overlooked.
Again, there's little objection to what you've said, Strife, other than where you've characterised the thread as having a lot of bigotry in it. Which naturally we do object to. I seriously request that you go back to near the start and read some of it properly to see where we are coming from.
Or even Three
One day there is going to be one hell of a reckoning!
There is no way in hell anyone is going to convince me a three year old was expressing concerns about their sexuality that a three year old was a patient should have raised every red flag there what the hell is going on with this country and yes at some point if this continues there is going to be a very unpleasant backlash from the public that could set back attitudes for decades don't these fanatics understand that.
They assume they can win. Every follower of an authoritarian ideology of irrational prejudices think they can win and some of them think they're right (some are just pretending to believe in order to gain power) and none of them can understand anything else because they've chosen to make themselves unable to do so.
There won't be "a very unpleasant backlash" if they win because any objection of any kind will be suppressed by force. Most people just go along with whatever is the norm in that time and place. Those who don't can be suppressed by force.
So far, they are winning very strongly. Expecting them to stop now is silly. They're gaining power hand over fist and gaining control over the next generation with almost free rein to indoctrinate children. Their propaganda is wildly successful in its deceptions. Why on earth would they stop now? They're winning the game of thrones of authoritarian ideologies of irrational prejudices, taking it from feminists. They might fail. They might in turn get deposed by another version of the same ideology but with different targetting. But they won't just stop because there might be a backlash if they fail.
This is one more issue to add to the few others that are simmering below society's facade and at some point something probably trivial in and of itself will kick things off and things will get bad. I don't think i can remember a time when the country was so divided and frustrated and the accelerating death of free speech is fuel to the fire i would like to be wrong as i have no desire for things to go bad but i can't shake the feeling that it will.
That backlash is going to hit gay and lesbian people. There's a movement styling itself "Get the L out" which is lesbians disassociating themselves from groups like Stonewall that are now overwhelmingly TRA-focused. I guess Stonewall needs to justify themselves somehow now that most people in the West don't give a stuff whether you're gay or not; and taking on Islam would be, you know, hard or something. Lesbian and Gay are sexual orientations. Trans is not. It's not like those at all. Lesbians are some of the most vocal people against the TRA movement. Gay men are largely de-politicised as a lobby these days. It's only the "Queers" that seem to be championing TRA causes as a block. Queer typically meaning in my experience "heterosexual but wants to be a minority". The TRA movement loves to piggy back on the historical gay rights movement though which is going to hurt people when the general public see LGBTQ.* as comprised by all lesbian and gay people when today it's become a Left Wing political ideology of its own.
Gay people never campaigned for the right to be Straight, or sued you for saying they weren't. Black people never fought to be recognized as White. These struggles were about equal treatment under the law. Trans people have that already. What the TRA lobby wants is something else.
I think the implosion is on the horizon tbh.
Edit: deleted potentially inflammatory link.
Some positive news. Parents at schools in Warwickshire have successfully managed to get a trans guidance booklet used by the school suspended.
Amongst the gems included in the booklet are instructions on breast binding for teenage girls to flatten and conceal developing breasts. Something that is both not a healthy response to accepting your body anyway, but also is proven to cause serious physical damage.
If anyone wants to know what a cult looks like, here is a post on a detransitioning forum from a young woman who now feels she can't get support from her friends and trans groups she was part of because she regrets undergoing a masectomy. This wont stop until surgeons are perform voluntary masectomies on people without therapy and counselling are SUED. Average age of elective double masectomies in a recent study was 17.5 years old.
The fact that "Detransitioning" even exists as a concept just serves to show just how screwed up this whole situation is.
One day, this whole "Trans" industry will be regarded with the same dismay as the "Ice Pick Lobotomies" of the 50's and 60's are today!
I guess at least she only had her top half operated on, it must be a total head **** for the MtF trans people who have surgery then regret it, essentially having their penis cut off and being left with an open wound with all sorts of potential ongoing complications.
Shhhh thats wrongthink!
I've seen stories of zealot parents who effectively almost force the kid to be trans.... boy plays with dolls once? OH HONEY THAT MEANS YOU ARE GOING TO BE TRANS! RIGHT?! lets convince you to become part of our collective mental illness....
So weird.... just let kids be kids?
Frankly, neither utterly appalling scenario is any better than the other.
Both will be peoples who will have been mutilated and De-Sexed (Neutered) on the alter of political correctness.
I donno, granted she’s lost the ability to breast feed, she can pretty much live as a woman other than that. Could get implants.
A guy with his privates popped off is rather more screwed.
Separate names with a comma.