9/11 - Controlled demolition?

Cheekykid said:
And yet the links you provide don't really prove anything to the contrary.
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The links I provide? The only link I provided in that post was a link to a page featuring photos of the Flight 77 wreckage, including easily identifiable pieces of the fuselage, the remains of engines, landing gears and other mechanical equipment used in 757s. That was a direct response to the video you suggested we watch (and I did watch, as much as I hate myself for doing so) in which Dave vonKleist claims there was no wreckage at the Pentagon, that the hole in the wall was not big enough for a 757 and other rubbish such as their being no markings on the lawn.

Unfortunately it's not possible to "promote" the official story, and even if someone did create a video which did so, no one would watch it because it's "cool" to think 9/11 was an inside job.

Cheekykid said:
The many videos that have been made have some very,very solid points that have never been answered and simply cannot be disproved by 'mumbo jumbo' sites like 911myths.
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"Very, very solid points"? I'd love to hear some of those, because I haven't seen any yet.
 
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Cheekykid said:
So we have finally found a site that has the 'truth' and we should all go there to get it. You are acting as obsessed as some theorists. You are ready to argue for evidence and ideas that have never been yours. Whatever :o
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I'm really not acting obsessed. I don't feel the need to run around and promote wildly illogical opinions as gospel truth to anyone who'll listen. I also don't take every opinion I have from some website, and I just hate stupid people.

Of course the idea that terrorists flew planes into the wtc isn't mine. It was the terrorists'. And please explain how evidence 'belongs' to someone?
 
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I seem to remember hearing that a lot of people in New York (perhaps 60%), don't believe the official 911 storey.

If true, that's a lot of people subscribing to looney conspiracy theories.
 
neocon said:
Flying planes into the wtc was thought up by the CIA.
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yep true there was quite a few derived plans aimed at convincing the public into backing something (such as a war) etc. and one of these outline in recently released classified documents show a suggestion to fly a plane into the towers but they were rejected.

But saying that I think if they gov did do it on purpose no way would they have publicly release a document saying someone on their payroll thought about it a while back.
 
neocon said:
I seem to remember hearing that a lot of people in New York (perhaps 60%), don't believe the official 911 storey.

If true, that's a lot of people subscribing to looney conspiracy theories.
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I live in NY, and of all the people I've spoken to, that figure is closer to 0%.

<generalisation>Of course, I'd expect 60% of the midwest to believe it was a conspiracy - it'd take their minds of the aliens in area 51 conspiracy for a bit.</generalisation>
 
Some of the pilots of those planes were ex airforce.

I find it hard to believe that a skiny little noob killed an airforce pilot with a box knife.
 
growse said:
Of course the idea that terrorists flew planes into the wtc isn't mine. It was the terrorists'. And please explain how evidence 'belongs' to someone?
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I meant evidence that you gathered first hand by being at the site and not by relying on what others report.

Al Vallario said:
The links I provide? The only link I provided in that post was a link to a page featuring photos of the Flight 77 wreckage, including easily identifiable pieces of the fuselage, the remains of engines, landing gears and other mechanical equipment used in 757s. That was a direct response to the video you suggested we watch (and I did watch, as much as I hate myself for doing so) in which Dave vonKleist claims there was no wreckage at the Pentagon, that the hole in the wall was not big enough for a 757 and other rubbish such as their being no markings on the lawn.

Unfortunately it's not possible to "promote" the official story, and even if someone did create a video which did so, no one would watch it because it's "cool" to think 9/11 was an inside job.
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How do you actually know that the debris the pictures show come from a 757? Do you unquestionably believe what they tell you?. A highly positioned person from Rolls Royce has stated that the parts shown from the engine are not from a 757. Obviously someone is lieing here but how can we know who does?
Insisting that all is ******** apart from couple of sites is futile.
Intellectualizing and using rhetoric in order to justify a positionality doesn't take you further on the matter. At the end analyzing seems to create more questions than it answers. Intellectualizing can become an end in itself (e.g. relativism and its negative impact on academia.) We often lose the forest for couple of trees. Intellectuality is limited in that it does not afford the capacity for the discernment of essence or the 'critical point' of a complex issue. It is disciplined by the dialectic of logic as a necessity to discern the linear(observable) 'truth' of confirmable facts. It produces massive amounts of information and documentation but it lacks the capability to resolve discrepancies in data and conclusions.
You can find 100 arguments to counter attack conspiracy theorists arguments and in return they can do the same. Simplifying seems to resolve the confusion of positionalities. It doesn't take long to smell a rat. 9/11--> wars --> constant obsession with 'terrorism' on the media --> big brother is watching us more and more --> certain civil liberties have been lost etc.
The situation is pretty ****** and regardless how you look at it our governments are reponsible for all these terrorists attacks either directly or indirectly.
 
neocon said:
Some of the pilots of those planes were ex airforce.

I find it hard to believe that a skiny little noob killed an airforce pilot with a box knife.
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Yes, well, he has to sort of fly the plane at the same time.
 
Cheekykid said:
A highly positioned person from Rolls Royce has stated that the parts shown from the engine are not from a 757.
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ONE! one single person has said that. Obviously he was the sole guy who designed and built the 757, because no-one else of the thousands of people who worked on it have said such a thing.

Reign the troops back in gov'ner, we've got a conspiracy. This one guy said so.
 
If you go against the official story for any reason, you'll probably loose your job and get arrested for being a terrorist sympathiser.
 
Al Vallario said:
He listens to him and treats him exactly like he deserves to be treated.
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So if I treat a scumbag by being acting myself like a scumbag that is appropriate? Does being 'right' justifies treating others like they are idiots?

Al Vallario said:
The fact is, there is no alternative....
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Doesn't that sound as a close minded statement?
 
I despair at what some people actually think like in the 21st century. It's beyond a joke.

Claim: explosives brought down the towers.

Facts: The impact of the planes damaged support columns ans steel floor trusses, causing the inward collapse of perimeter columns. which pulled the floors straight down.

A misqote of a demolition expert started the explosives theory.

Seismic spikes, caused by debris hitting the ground, were recorded 10 seconds after each tower started to fall.

Claim: fire alone wouldn't have this effect.

Facts: A few critical elements - includig damage on the south face, unusual structural design to accomodate a Con Edison substation, extreme weight bearing on floors, and long burning diesel fuel leaked from large emergency generators compromised structural integrity.

Claim: missile hit the pentagon.

Facts: Witnesses saw the plane hit. The plane lost one wing on the ground and another on the West wall before the fuselage tore the 23-m hole. To question this is to question the fate of the 64 people on board. The remains of all but one have been identified.
 
neocon said:
If you go against the official story for any reason, you'll probably loose your job and get arrested for being a terrorist sympathiser.
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Yup which doesn't sound right. A government that prescribes the writing of history by penal law is dictating to its citizens what to think, and that is the exact definition of a dictatorship

Jet said:
I despair at what some people actually think like in the 21st century. It's beyond a joke.

Claim: explosives brought down the towers.

Facts: The impact of the planes damaged support columns ans steel floor trusses, causing the inward collapse of perimeter columns. which pulled the floors straight down.

A misqote of a demolition expert started the explosives theory.

Seismic spikes, caused by debris hitting the ground, were recorded 10 seconds after each tower started to fall.

Claim: fire alone wouldn't have this effect.

Facts: A few critical elements - includig damage on the south face, unusual structural design to accomodate a Con Edison substation, extreme weight bearing on floors, and long burning diesel fuel leaked from large emergency generators compromised structural integrity.

Claim: missile hit the pentagon.

Facts: Witnesses saw the plane hit. The plane lost one wing on the ground and another on the West wall before the fuselage tore the 23-m hole. To question this is to question the fate of the 64 people on board. The remains of all but one have been identified.
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What about the firefighters who heared explosions? and the land owner who said that he decided to 'pull them'?
 
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neocon said:
Autopilot
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That doesn't mean he can walk about for the duration of the journey. All it would take is for a hijacker to hold a steward at knife point and the pilot could do nothing.
 
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