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939 Athlon 3800+ x2 = Toledo or Manchester?

phatboy

phatboy

phatboy

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Have seen both chips up for grabs at VERY good prices, just wondering which has the better potential, or are they just as good an overclocker as the other?

Cheers

Ben
 
Toledo is the newer core and allegedly has an improved memory controller and the late 2006 onward cores are generally doing around 2.7-2.8GHz at stock volts and can scale up to 3GHz with up to 1.5v with only a few being less than 2.7GHz.

Manchester runs a bit cooler when overclocked compared to Toledo. It can overclock well but usually need volts to do so or you could be unlucky and it'll max out at around 2.5GHz at ~1.5v.

Toledo is the one to go for due to requiring less volts for a decent overclock or you could get lucky with a very nice Manchester.

The main difference between single core and dual core 939 CPUs from my experience is more heat (requiring better heatsinks with a much higher saturation point) and obviously higher temps. It's not just the CPU temp that increases it's also the PWMIC area on the motherboard which I've found increases by 10-15c just by switching to a dual core CPU. I've found this to be the case with various motherboards including the DFI Ultra-D, DFI EXPERT and DFI RDX200 as well as MSI and Foxconn boards.
 
cheers dude, will keep that in mind, i have a Freezer 64 Pro unit on mine, so that should suffice nicely :)

Ben
 
phatboy said:
cheers dude, will keep that in mind, i have a Freezer 64 Pro unit on mine, so that should suffice nicely :)

Ben
Click to expand...
My Freezer 64 Pro was heat saturated quite quicky with dual core although for a single core it was fine. It's usable for light overclocking although it depends on a few things like case cooling and keeping the chipset and PWMIC temps low to keep the overall inside-case ambient temperature low enough to stop the Freezer 64 Pro from becoming heat saturated.

My Freezer 64 Pro cooled X2 4200+ at 2.75GHz at stock volts resulted in a max core temps of 65c with an unmodified DFI NF4 Ultra-D. The PWMIC was over 60c with the chipset close to 60c as well. I've made a lot of changes since then including the HR-05 SLI chipset passive cooler and a ThermalTake BigTyphoon bolted down onto my now IHS'less X2 4200+ Toledo and at 2.75GHz with stock volts the chipset max temp is 45c, PWMIC max temp is 51c and the max CPU core temps are 45c/50c. The HR-05 SLI made a huge difference to the PWMIC and chipset temps.

EDIT: Forgot to say my setup with the HR-05 SLI/Big Typhoon etc is ultra silent. I have the CPU fan and the front and back fans controlled by the motherboard and have tweaked the BIOS fan control to ensure it only speeds up the fans should the temps go crazy. The motherboard actually switches the CPU fan off most of the time and when it does switch it on for example if I'm playing a game it maxes out at around 700rpm . :)

Screenshot:

 
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Nice result. :D

Is that a Toledo core? What volts and is the 45c the motherboard reported CPU temp or was it via the CoreTemp program or a similar program?
 
Jay m8

Can you give me a list of your settings to reach 2.9Ghz please? I'll need HTT speed, multiplier and RAM timings especially.

I have the same set-up as you except my Basllistix is the PC3200 version that normally runs 2-2-2-6 at 1T. I've slackened the timings to ultra slow and the RAM is now running at 217Mhz on a 333 divider and the CPU is doing 2600Mhz (1.425v). I should try lower volts coz for times sake I just upped them when trying for 2600!

Not checked temps outside of the free Everest program but they are around 60 under load which is fine by me.
 
i heard about toledo's, so i went for one of them!

VERY impressed, easily sits at 2.8, aint done much to get that far either! Think 2.9/3 would be doable if i mess about a bit :)
 
gotmine 9th july and it clocks @ 3gh with 1.39v ,tryed 3.1 but it failed when loading windows! still 3gh is still good .
its a E6 toledo :D ,good luck on getting a good one :p
 
tbz_ck said:
Jay m8

Can you give me a list of your settings to reach 2.9Ghz please? I'll need HTT speed, multiplier and RAM timings especially.

I have the same set-up as you except my Basllistix is the PC3200 version that normally runs 2-2-2-6 at 1T. I've slackened the timings to ultra slow and the RAM is now running at 217Mhz on a 333 divider and the CPU is doing 2600Mhz (1.425v). I should try lower volts coz for times sake I just upped them when trying for 2600!

Not checked temps outside of the free Everest program but they are around 60 under load which is fine by me.
Click to expand...


Ok my settings are:

HT 290
Multi 10
HTT multi 4 ( which means its going over 1000 but it cant work at 3 for me??)
Core voltage 1.365 in bios (motherboard overvolts to 1.39)
Memory divider 333mhz
Memory timings:
2.5
4
4
10
1T
DDR voltage 2.9 (crucial say to run the ram at 2.8-9 i run at 2.9just to be sure)

I think thats all the settings to need to know.
 
Ta Jaykay.

Tried 2800 and it posted OK but only with RAM at 333 divider. When set at 266 divider it refused to post at all !

At 2800 with 1.45v it wasn't stable and I think the RAM is at fault even with those loose timings. Temps are a bit "fruity" at 1.45 volts too !

Gonna have to settle for 2600 and take the volts down. Gonna try it at 1.375V and do an orthos overnight. Then I'll slowly try to tighten the RAM timings until I get as fast and stable as possible.
 
My motherboard is like that too, when i tried to hit 3ghz i wanted the ram to run on a 266 divider but it wasnt having it.
 
jaykay said:
My motherboard is like that too, when i tried to hit 3ghz i wanted the ram to run on a 266 divider but it wasnt having it.
Click to expand...
The memory sub timings are probably wrong when overclocked with the 266 divider. The problem occurs because the motherboard doesn't look to the overclocked memory speed when deciding which SPD settings to use.

You can use A64Info beta to find out the sub timings in use at DDR400 by having everything at stock and noting down all the settings in the A64Info memory tab. Then you go into the BIOS and change to the 266 divider still with everything else at stock and then boot to Windows again and check A64Info beta to see what's changed. Next you go into BIOS and change the sub timings manually to what they should be for stable operation.
 
New chip arrived today, and its a toledo :D

Running currently at 2.55ghz happily, doesnt seem to want to post above that atm.....could well be the default BIOS settings playing silly buggers

Ram im using is GEIL DDR400 Value, currently at 208mhz (416mhz ddr) had it at 432mhz DDR no worries with old Venice, so hoping it can keep up with a good clock speed on this :)

Ben
 
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What could I expect on my A8N-E?

I think going from a 3Ghz 4000+ to a 2.8Ghz 4200+ X2 might be a worthwhile bump for my 939 system...
 
Toledo is definitely the way to go.

I've had mine upto 3217 unstable using an AC Cooling Freezer and it will run at 3006MHz stable 1.55v (1.525v actual) LCBIE are good chips if you have the chance to get a look at the stepping. :)
 
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