A few ipod noob questions: Sound quality improvement/Equaliser for iPod touch?

Ksanti · 5 Oct 2011 at 22:01

I've been avoiding ipod products for years (since my first ipod Nano) due to the promise of sound quality elsewhere, but while I still value sound quality over almost everything else, the all but total withdrawal from the market by more or less basically every other serious competitor to the ipod keeps pushing me towards the ipod touch.

How good can the sound quality get from these devices nowadays? I don't need it to drive Denon cans or anything like that, but coming from a series of dedicated "audiophile" DAPs (iriver clix2, Samsung P3, Cowon S9) I really don't want to spend £200+ on a device that just leaves me frustrated with the sound quality.

Also how practicable is it to use Windows Explorer as file management? I don't mind using MediaMonkey for file management, but as I buy almost all of my music on CDs, and have all of my photos etc. organised within Adobe Bridge/Lightroom, I wouldn't want to have to organise 3 different file systems for every media type.

Psycho Sonny · 6 Oct 2011 at 00:36

if you want the best possible sound quality from an ipod you will need to use a line out cable (dont use headphone out unless you have crappy headphones) and at least a half decent amp take a look here

http://www.head-fi.org/t/573969/find-the-best-fiio-products-for-you

fiio also make line out cables which cost £5-£7, make sure you get them from a official distributor as their are a lot of fakes out there which will offer poor sound quality.

fiio are the best bang for buck amps, you can get better quality by spending more on an amp. for portable use the best is E11 (£40) then the E6 (£15-£20). you can get other amps which cost a lot more which will make the touch sound even better, but i personally don't see the point.

for home use check out the chart.

but if you dont fancy faffing around, just get a cowon j3, cowon d2+ or a cowon s9, they will sound better than a ipod touch and any sub £100 amp, also the cowon will not need an amp, just use the headphone out.

so your 2 options are:

touch + line out cable + amp

or

cowon player

the cowon will have marginally better sound quality but the touch will offer you so much more (especially if jailbroken).

the touch also has an app called Equ which is a must download, improves SQ further by being able to manipulate settings to your preference.

i suggest you do some research on head fi for more info.

Rambaud · 6 Oct 2011 at 10:13

Definitely agree about Fiio gear - excellent value. I have an E5, and a E7+E9.

I use a silver/copper line-out cable (US$54.99 inc shipping).

The iPod does not play FLAC files natively - although I believe there is an app which does. I have an increasing collection of 24-Bit/96khz music, so I am seriously considering something like the Archos 70 (with 250Gb storage).

Psycho Sonny · 6 Oct 2011 at 13:41

Rambaud said:
Definitely agree about Fiio gear - excellent value. I have an E5, and a E7+E9.

I use a silver/copper line-out cable (US$54.99 inc shipping).

The iPod does not play FLAC files natively - although I believe there is an app which does. I have an increasing collection of 24-Bit/96khz music, so I am seriously considering something like the Archos 70 (with 250Gb storage).

wow thats a lot of money for a line out imo, you should sell the E5 and get a E11, its far superior to the E5, or at the very least sell the E5 and get an E6.

Rambaud · 6 Oct 2011 at 17:59

Yes, US$54.99 is probably at the limit I would want to pay for an iPod cable.

Neither the E6 nor E11 were out when I bought the E5 (cost ~ £16.00) - but I might give one of them a try.

Rambaud · 7 Oct 2011 at 11:01

Just ordered an E11 (plus higher capacity battery).

Psycho Sonny · 7 Oct 2011 at 20:26

Rambaud said:
Yes, US$54.99 is probably at the limit I would want to pay for an iPod cable.

Neither the E6 nor E11 were out when I bought the E5 (cost ~ £16.00) - but I might give one of them a try.

yeah i guessed that, that's why i was saying its time to sell it and move on.

Rambaud said:
Just ordered an E11 (plus higher capacity battery).

where did you order from? i will be biting the bullet too on the E11 and an L9 i think, so could you let me know how good it is and whether you notice the difference in SQ? also any other pro's and con's?

its just a standard nokia battery is it not? what capacity is the one you ordered vs the standard one?

you should take a look at the Equ app, it only performs really well on newer devices, on the 3G touch if you decide to multi task, it takes a fit, so i only use it when i know i dont need to use any other apps.

Rambaud · 8 Oct 2011 at 08:04

Yes, AFAIK, the battery in the E11 is a standard Nokia BL-5B battery with a capacity of 800Ah.

I ordered one with a capacity of 1930Ah from the Bay. There was a 2050Ah available, but from Hong Kong.

It will be interesting to see what SQ improvement there is over the E5.

Yes, I was considering the Equ app after your first post.

Psycho Sonny · 8 Oct 2011 at 15:15

Rambaud said:
Yes, AFAIK, the battery in the E11 is a standard Nokia BL-5B battery with a capacity of 800Ah.

I ordered one with a capacity of 1930Ah from the Bay. There was a 2050Ah available, but from Hong Kong.

It will be interesting to see what SQ improvement there is over the E5.

Yes, I was considering the Equ app after your first post.

well the E6 is supposed to iron out all the bugs the E5 had and the E11 is supposed to be a lot better than the E6, so you should notice the SQ as their should be a big jump, but it all depends on your headphones tbh (im guessing you have decent ones, because of the hardware and types of file you have).

if its double the capacity battery then that it a decent upgrade and you can even use the original one as a spare, just in case, but roughly 20 hours from the higher capacity battery should be more than enough in between charges.

the Equ app is very good, but very power hungry, if you have an iphone 4 or ipod touch 4th generation then it should run really well, on anything older you cannot multitask.

there is another app called Equaliser but the Equ gets better reviews in headfi so it may be worth looking into that one, if you dont get on with Equ, its a personal preference really as both essentially do the same job.

Rambaud · 8 Oct 2011 at 17:14

E11 did not arrive - went to wrong address.

Bought the Equ app - well worth the price. However, knowing me, I may spend more time fiddling with the settings than listening to the music.

MikeHunt79 · 8 Oct 2011 at 17:18

It's a shame there is no TOSLINK out on iPods, as you'd be able to use an external DAC then.

Another option is to use an Airport Express that his a TOSLINK out and you can hook up whatever DAC you want.

Psycho Sonny · 8 Oct 2011 at 18:22

MikeHunt79 said:
It's a shame there is no TOSLINK out on iPods, as you'd be able to use an external DAC then.

Another option is to use an Airport Express that his a TOSLINK out and you can hook up whatever DAC you want.

i dont think any portable mp3 player on the planet has TOSLINK out, its simply not needed, the line out with a portable amp is extremely good anyway.

this is a portable solution, TOSLINK and such things are used within the home.

Psycho Sonny · 8 Oct 2011 at 18:24

Rambaud said:
E11 did not arrive - went to wrong address.

Bought the Equ app - well worth the price. However, knowing me, I may spend more time fiddling with the settings than listening to the music.

i find the dance setting very good as well as the vocal booster setting, but obviously the app is more for defining your own manual settings to suit your preference.

i did a bit of fiddling but i stick with the presets tbh, need to find a custom colour scheme which works well too im thinking red and yellow.

MikeHunt79 · 8 Oct 2011 at 19:03

Psycho Sonny said:
i dont think any portable mp3 player on the planet has TOSLINK out, its simply not needed, the line out with a portable amp is extremely good anyway.

this is a portable solution, TOSLINK and such things are used within the home.

My 8 year old iRiver has TOSLINK out, this photo isn't mine but people use them with external DAC/AMP modules.

However, I think an iPod with a headphone amp will probably be ok for most people for portable use.

It's just a shame they don't do an iPod with optical out I think, especially when you consider the iRiver came out in 2003...

Psycho Sonny · 9 Oct 2011 at 03:01

can you get anything which was made within the last 2 years which is portable and has TOSLINK?

my nokia n8 has USB digital out which can be used with a DAC, which im assuming has now replaced TOSLINK.

Somnambulist · 9 Oct 2011 at 05:52

There are two options if you're serious about making the iPod a high end device. They're both very expensive though. Both devices are the only ones on the market which bypass the internal DAC of the iPod and give you a true digital signal. The cost is that using the iDevice in USB transfer mode drains the battery down quite a bit quicker and neither device will charge the iDevice even when plugged into the mains. Also both add a fair bit of bulk and are essentially 'brick' set ups.

1) Fostex HP-P1. This is a combined external DAC/headphone amp.
2) Cypher Labs Algorhythm Solo. This is a DAC, you still need to buy a portable headphone amp.

Other than this there are really no alternatives at the moment which offer digital output on the go. Android devices don't seem to support it yet although I believe the functionality is potentially there. Fiio did have a DAP in the pipeline called the X3 which would have offered this, but unfortunately due to the firmware developers being rubbish they have put it on hold indefinitely.

There are high end 'audiophile' players, and I've owned a couple, but the problem is they use crappy Chinese software, are buggy, battery life is poor and if you have any problems with the device repairs/replacements are a real PITA. The iOS software/interface makes me happy to cart a brick about over something like the Hifiman HM-801, I like the smart playlists too much!

Also, I wouldn't worry about using ALAC lossless or anything like that. Even with high end gear like the above and high end IEMs/headphones, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference listening critically and certainly not while on the commute or something. Waste of storage space. AAC is a great lossy format.

Psycho Sonny · 10 Oct 2011 at 03:52

Somnambulist said:
There are two options if you're serious about making the iPod a high end device. They're both very expensive though. Both devices are the only ones on the market which bypass the internal DAC of the iPod and give you a true digital signal. The cost is that using the iDevice in USB transfer mode drains the battery down quite a bit quicker and neither device will charge the iDevice even when plugged into the mains. Also both add a fair bit of bulk and are essentially 'brick' set ups.

1) Fostex HP-P1. This is a combined external DAC/headphone amp.
2) Cypher Labs Algorhythm Solo. This is a DAC, you still need to buy a portable headphone amp.

Other than this there are really no alternatives at the moment which offer digital output on the go. Android devices don't seem to support it yet although I believe the functionality is potentially there. Fiio did have a DAP in the pipeline called the X3 which would have offered this, but unfortunately due to the firmware developers being rubbish they have put it on hold indefinitely.

There are high end 'audiophile' players, and I've owned a couple, but the problem is they use crappy Chinese software, are buggy, battery life is poor and if you have any problems with the device repairs/replacements are a real PITA. The iOS software/interface makes me happy to cart a brick about over something like the Hifiman HM-801, I like the smart playlists too much!

Also, I wouldn't worry about using ALAC lossless or anything like that. Even with high end gear like the above and high end IEMs/headphones, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference listening critically and certainly not while on the commute or something. Waste of storage space. AAC is a great lossy format.

lol @ the price of the equipment you have listed

how does this compare?

http://redwineaudio.com/imod

also for the money you have spent, it would have been a lot cheaper to get a nokia n8 and use USB digital out with a DAC and AMP.

i doubt there are many people on the planet who have the above setups you have mentioned. i would seriously like to know if anyone could tell the difference in SQ of one of the above setups and an Ipod touch using line out and a decent amp. Im willing to bet it isnt worth the £500 outlay

Rambaud · 10 Oct 2011 at 11:10

Psycho Sonny said:
lol @ the price of the equipment you have listed

how does this compare?

http://redwineaudio.com/imod

also for the money you have spent, it would have been a lot cheaper to get a nokia n8 and use USB digital out with a DAC and AMP.

i doubt there are many people on the planet who have the above setups you have mentioned. i would seriously like to know if anyone could tell the difference in SQ of one of the above setups and an Ipod touch using line out and a decent amp. Im willing to bet it isnt worth the £500 outlay

I would tend to agree, especially if the audio files are MP3 or AAC - both lossy formats.

And don't even get me started on the headphones aspect.

MikeHunt79 · 10 Oct 2011 at 18:00

Psycho Sonny said:
can you get anything which was made within the last 2 years which is portable and has TOSLINK?

my nokia n8 has USB digital out which can be used with a DAC, which im assuming has now replaced TOSLINK.

If you consider an iPad portable, then an iPad with CCK and a USB soundcard with Toslink out such as a Behringer UCA0202 will work.

Any smaller than that then I'm afraid I haven't really been keeping track, but I do find it a shame that a player that is getting on for 10 years old now has features that newer players have done away with, as adding a toslink output really wouldn't add that much to the manufacturing cost. 2 steps forward and 1 step back springs to mind...